Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've read on many forums that it's good to feed your Indigos chicken parts or quail and fish in addition to rats/mice. The main problem I faced was finding these items in appropriate sizes. I don’t live near a fish farm that can supply me with baby trout or tilapia and most small species of fish such as smelt and goldfish are high in thiaminase (an enzyme that breaks down vitamin B). Quail (thanks to CA law) is only sold in adult size which is still a bit too big for my yearlings.

I've seen snake sausages made by Natural Balance Pet Foods but didn’t like them because the sausages are only filled with beef and vitamins. In addition to beef not being part of a snake’s natural diet, the sausages don’t contain any bones, skin, intestines or other parts that would naturally be present in a snake’s diet.

Solution… or so I think: I bought an industrial strength meet grinder, ground up some whole chickens (bones and skin included) and some whole tilapia fish (head, scales, bones and guts included) and stuffed them in some natural hog casings. I mixed the ground chicken and ground fish at a 2 to 1 ratio. I’m thinking of feeding my snakes these sausages in addition to rats in the attempt to give them a more balanced diet than just rats and boneless fish fillets.

I’d really like to hear your opinions, thoughts and advice.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

www.mikesreptiles.webs.com

Yum! They look delicious until you read the ingredients.

But seriously you have control over quality and what goes into making these. They are all natural, basically whole prey items not any different than if you fed those items directly. The only problem I see with them is messy stools since they lack any fur or feathers to help bind up the stools. The only other consideration is keeping a balance in the chicken between fatty (dark meat) and lean (light meat) and the amount of vitamins A & D3 intake from the fish livers.

As a regular routine diet then no but as you're suggesting as a balanced approach to your snakes' diet they should work well. That is if your snakes will eat them and knowing indigos that should not be a big problem.
-----
BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Dear Mike, you are resourceful and innovative, and I trust having fun with your snake food sausages. Heaven help you if a family member/roommate mistakes them for the sausages they choose to eat... I am an advocate of feeding a variety, if for no other reason than enriching our captives lives and diet and trying to cover the nutritional bases. These sausages will certainly be convenient and as is well known, you can make sausages out of an amazing variety of food sources.

However, I have seen handsome and vigorous long term breeders which were fed exclusively on a steady diet of lab mice...so I sometimes wonder if variety is necessary...? I would suggest adding hair or feathers or fibrous material and/or bones to the sausages. OR, when feeding sausages you make, feed along with other whole amimal items. This I do on the rare occasions I feed fish fillets or pigeon breasts/legs. Moderation in all things... What are you usihg for the sausage casings?

Oops...I reread your post and you clearly indicated hog casings...sorry. I think you have a pretty good idea, you might want to monitor the amount of fat in demestic chickens, it is pretty high I think. How would the fat content of your sausages compare with wild prey? Let us know how they are accepted. I remember seeing snake sausages marketed several years ago, but I never tried them....

I don't know about the law regarding quail you mentioned, and I too live in California. They are openly shipped here by a well known mid west source, any size I want. I sometimes half longitudinally the large quail, as they can be difficult to swallow. Effective but messy, your sausages sound neat and efficient. Good luck, Vic

Vic,

I have not heard from you in a while. Heard from anyone that was in Post 30 lately?

ECTimaeus

Hey Vic, let me know if you have received my email.

Thanks,
Mike
mikesreptiles.webs.com

Good suggestion regarding adding fur or feathers to the stuffing. I'll try to see if I can get some feathers from the butcher I got my casings from.

- Mike
www.mikesreptiles.webs.com

I agree about the sausages. I have a six year old Ball Python that I've had since she was one month old. I've never had trouble getting her to eat until this past summer. She ate one adult mouse in March and then I could not get her to eat another one until August 8th. I took her to the Vet twice. They checked her and didn't find anything wrong at all. She showed nothing different at all in her behavior or routine. She just would not eat. I was getting frantic that we would have to have the Vet force feed her. That is something I *do not* want to ever do. I had actually been considering trying something much like the sausages myself since I would know what was in them and all that.

I think the sausages are a great idea to be able to have for any species of snake. Especially the ones that go through phases like mine did. Toward the end of August she started eating normally again. It was very odd and worrying to me. If I had had snake sausages that had clean, healthy ingredients and vitamins to try and feed her with, I would have breathed a little easier with just one of those in her belly rather than the one adult mouse she did eat.

Well done with your recipe too. And I agree about them looking good - until I read the ingredients. LOL...

Just wondering if you tried feeding these to your Indigos and whether or not they liked them...
-----
Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

Hey Paul,

I tried the sausages with my female indigo and she devoured them. To my surprise her feeding response to the sausages was much stronger than her feeding response to rats (her normal diet). My male indigo is in blue so I haven't tried giving him any sausages yet.

I had a little problem with some of the stuffing oozing out, but hopefully I'll have that worked out by the next batch. Tying the ends of each link is a bit tricky and labor intensive, but definitely a step that should not be rushed.

I took some of the stuffing that oozed out, made it into a small ball and give it to my female false water cobra and she also ate it right up.

So far, it's an overall success with some minor issues to iron out.

- Mike
www.mikesreptiles.webs.com

Wow, that sounds pretty cool. Where did you find the industrial grade meat grinder and the hog casings? Also, I was wondering how the cost of the chicken fish combo compared to an equivalent sized rat meal. I would think it would be cheaper (??)
-----
Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

I bought the meat grinder off Amamzon.com. The important thing is to get a meat grinder that is strong enough to be able to handle the bones. So the higher the wattage the better. I picked up the hog casings from a small local butcher shop.

The cost of the sausages was probably comparable to the cost of rats (if you were to buy rats in bulk). I could have done it cheaper, but I wasn't too concerned about the cost in this first batch because it was more of proof of concept for me.

- Mike
www.mikesreptiles.webs.com

Metamucil for fiber??? Thanks in advance for the effort. Keep us turned in. Don't think I could dig the meat grinder even though I kill my own rats. You're on the right track I'm sure. No one likes killing rats I don't think. Folks biggest turn off about snakes. Shannon

I think these are fantastic. I was thinking of producing something basically identical at one time. I would love to see if they could be a convenient way to maintain King cobras. I guess you have to soak and rinse those casings real well to get rid of the brine? I wouldn’t worry about adding fur and feathers or the fat content of the chickens either. I love it. Please follow up and let us know how it goes.

The casing that I got were soaked in a brine, and so as you've suggested, I've rinsed them off very well and soaked them in some fresh water to get rid of any salt.

I was also thinking that these could be modified to work for different types of species. I've never worked with King cobras so I don't know how picky they are. However, if they are picky feeders, perhaps a small piece of their normal food item, whether it be lizards or other snakes, could be attached to the tip of each sausage for scenting?

- Mike
mikesreptiles.webs.com

I've been feeding my female Indigo a sausage every other feeding, switching back and forth between sausages and rats. So far she is doing great. Droppings look normal. Haven't had a chance to add feathers to the sausage mix yet but I'll let you guys know the outcome when I do.

Happy New Year!
Mike

mikesreptiles.webs.com

Wow Mike Great work!
-----
Craigulator