Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone working with these(Crot. mitch. pyrrhus) or does anyone have more info on them or pics? I have just heard about these recently. I know they are highly variable throughout their range. Are the "white" ones only found in the Tinajas Altas mountains? Do they all look similar in that area or is that phase very rare kind of like finding a blonde suboc in west Texas? Any good info would be greatly appreciated.

I can't give out locality info for obvious reasons but most of this particular population all exhibit that brilliant ivory coloration; definitely my favorite speck. There are a few of us working with them and hopefully, will have some animals available in the future (babies are being held back).

>>Is anyone working with these(Crot. mitch. pyrrhus) or does anyone have more info on them or pics? I have just heard about these recently. I know they are highly variable throughout their range. Are the "white" ones only found in the Tinajas Altas mountains? Do they all look similar in that area or is that phase very rare kind of like finding a blonde suboc in west Texas? Any good info would be greatly appreciated.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

There are some actually for sale, but TOS prevents me from saying anything else about that. They are priced INSANE ! I just bought a neonate trio of willardi silus for 1400. Jesus, it looks like any idiot who finds a snake with a scale out of place or a different color - all of a sudden it is a new RARE morph worth a pile of cash. Although these "white" specs are nice, it ain't nothing new, rare or worth a pile of cash unless people are stupid enough to buy in to that garbage. If you want to know where to go in Californication to collect these white specs, email me and I'll give you GPS locales for them or I'll just post them here for all to read. I can also tell you that they pop up in breeding specs from time to time regardless of the locale. Buy yourself some nice specs and breed them. Don't buy into these idiots selling a "new morph" and pay those stupid prices. Good luck to you in your breeding efforts.

First it's NOT a morph and second if I'm right about the ones they're talking about they do NOT occur in CA at all...thanks...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom, they are not found in California so I'm not sure what h/she is alluding to but its not the ivory specs I know about. The post/comment was completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows squat about these ivory specs knows how rare they really are. Are they locally abundant where they are found? Perhaps, but I can tell you that their numbers are nothing like they used to be. The price being asked for them is probably fair considering how hard they are to find now. In my opinion, this locale is by far the most coveted of all of the various spec variants and for good reason - they are drop dead gorgeous.

Rob Carmichael

>>First it's NOT a morph and second if I'm right about the ones they're talking about they do NOT occur in CA at all...thanks...
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>>Tom Crutchfield
>>www.tomcrutchfield.com
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

In fairness to the first comment, and a follow up to my last comment, maybe there's another white spec population out there but I'm not aware of anything in California..only a small population in a remote area of Arizona...just in case someone has a short fuse

>>Tom, they are not found in California so I'm not sure what h/she is alluding to but its not the ivory specs I know about. The post/comment was completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows squat about these ivory specs knows how rare they really are. Are they locally abundant where they are found? Perhaps, but I can tell you that their numbers are nothing like they used to be. The price being asked for them is probably fair considering how hard they are to find now. In my opinion, this locale is by far the most coveted of all of the various spec variants and for good reason - they are drop dead gorgeous.
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>>Rob Carmichael
>>
>>>>First it's NOT a morph and second if I'm right about the ones they're talking about they do NOT occur in CA at all...thanks...
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>>>>Tom Crutchfield
>>>>www.tomcrutchfield.com
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>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
>>Lake Forest, IL
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Thanks for the posts guys. Anyone have any pics of a really nice ivory/"white" adult? Do they retain their juvenile pattern or get better or worse looking with age?

I'm one of the RARE ones that goes to where these animals are and photographs them...I go a couple times a year, and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of habitat damage I see in pursuit of these things. I have friends that have some and in the event they'll breed, I'll get a couple...

They are a bit unlike specks from other locales...I wish more people would go and just observe/photograph...Unfortunately, these things are "different enough" that people "across the pond" will pay big money to get their hands on them.

I've seriously thought about getting a proven pair and breeding them...then giving away the babies...I may do that in the future, because quite frankly all this cash flying around is only causing more people to want to "cash in"...to the detriment of the environment.

-Kris

Can you post some pics of the very best looking ones you have found?

First of all those snakes are not "rare" PALEEZE, its called cryptic coloration for a reason folks (I have walked right past them before without seeing them because they tend not to rattle, even when pissed off). Remember, they used to call Gila Monsters rare, remember?????

Secondly, it is gross that people are tearing that range up to find them, and others, all for a buck, definitely a reflection of our economic times...I consider those folks to be bottom feeders.

3rdly, they do occur in CA. IF, and only IF, you know where to look and trust me when I say I wont ever tell a soul where that place is!
And dont presume its near the other locale, cause it is not LOL!!!! More than 50 miles away.

I seriously doubt that they will dissapear, too much territory to cover, people from as far away as Sweden know about these animals and where to look for them,and the snakes still persist in numbers. The saving grace is these snakes are not easy to find, even in the best of conditions (and with dumbasses giving you GPS coordinates). Not because they are rare but because they are more secretive IMO, and they cover an immense mountain range that is VERY HARD to endure and explore. Most people that go there to hunt for them stay by the road which is fine with me because the prettiest ones to photograph are deep in the mountains and you have to hike through some very hard country to get to them.

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Do you have any pics of the really nice ones you have seen? The pic in your post looks like a regular animal. Not sure if that was supposed to be a "white" spec or not. Nobody seems to have any pics of really nice animals-the only ones I have seen look more tan than white. Thanks.

I tend to shy away from putting things up anymore, you can google them on the internet and find quite a few that have been posted.

Nothing personal, I just do not have the patience for uploading a picture to the internet...

They are nice but so are really nice blue ones, red ones, or the pastel ones i find around me.

The animal in the photo is a gravid female C.tigris
heres a B.asper eating a Cuban tree frog.

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Yes, I have photos but I won't be posting them...Like lateralis, I don't want to garner unnecessary attention to a place that already gets chewed up by collectors on a yearly basis....

I'm not tryin' to be a bad guy, and please don't take it personal...It's not...

To lateralis' point, these animals are not rare...In fact, one can see quite a few of them on a single hike if they know when/where/how to look...Just because they're not in immediate danger of extirpation doesn't mean we (as responsible herpers) shouldn't do what we can to protect their habitat.

There are LOTS of pictures of these animals available online.

-Kris

Tom, they are not found in California so I'm not sure what h/she is alluding to but its not the ivory specs I know about. The post/comment was completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows squat about these ivory specs knows how rare they really are. Are they locally abundant where they are found? Perhaps, but I can tell you that their numbers are nothing like they used to be. The price being asked for them is probably fair considering how hard they are to find now. In my opinion, this locale is by far the most coveted of all of the various spec variants and for good reason - they are drop dead gorgeous.

Ridiculous? LOL...obviously you know everything about the species!! Whats ridiculous was the reply, AND the paltry and misleading information that was posted about them.

What, are you hoping the agencies will give credence to your misinformation and close the season on them so you can make those "fair prices"??? See I know how marketing works too! )))

...and just because YOU BOYS have not found a white speck in CA does not mean that they dont exist, perhaps I will post a picture of it once I remove the identifying features in the photo, I truly dont want a bunch of commercial buffoons trying to make a $ off of them...

Folks, those snakes are about as rare as a Corona beer on Cinco de Mayo...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Tom, they are not found in California so I'm not sure what h/she is alluding to but its not the ivory specs I know about. The post/comment was completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows squat about these ivory specs knows how rare they really are. Are they locally abundant where they are found? Perhaps, but I can tell you that their numbers are nothing like they used to be. The price being asked for them is probably fair considering how hard they are to find now. In my opinion, this locale is by far the most coveted of all of the various spec variants and for good reason - they are drop dead gorgeous.

Ridiculous? LOL...obviously you know everything about the species!! Whats ridiculous was the reply, AND the paltry and misleading information that was posted about them.

What, are you hoping the agencies will give credence to your misinformation and close the season on them so you can make those "fair prices"??? See I know how marketing works too! )))

...and just because YOU BOYS have not found a white speck in CA does not mean that they dont exist, perhaps I will post a picture of it once I remove the identifying features in the photo, I truly dont want a bunch of commercial buffoons trying to make a $ off of them...

Folks, those snakes are about as rare as a Corona beer on Cinco de Mayo...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

If research proves out, than they will be considered a new one, time will tell.

..and they are doing just fine in CA, if you know where to look

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford