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Does anyone have any information (or even educated guesses) on Sanzinia "morph" genetics? I have a very green pair of green Sanzinia that just turned out to be two females. Now they're both breeding with my "other" (only) available male. I believe this male is some form of axanthic (since his ground color is a purplish silver and his siblings are all normal looking).

So, does anyone know how the green color is carried? I suspect its multiple allelic as the green tends to be graded (some animals are more green than others), but I would be interested if anyone has some real knowledge of this.

And if anyone knows anything about axanthisim in this animal. It would be interesting to know as well.

Thanks

Hi,
TO me, without seeing a picture, it sounds like your male is a Mandarin phase. This is a different subspecies from your Green.
The green is a Boa mandrita volontany and the Mandarin is a Boa mandrita mandrita.

I am not one for crossing rare boas, and I consider Madagascan tree boas to be fairly rare.

I would imagine the offspring, if they produce, to be a relative mix of the two parents.

Any pictures of the male?

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

I appreciate your concern, but I'm well aware of the two "subspecies" of Sanzinia. (By the way, Vences et al restored Acrantophis and Sanzinia back in 2001, so Boa is no longer the correct genera.) All of my animals are "S. m. madagascarensis". (Vences et a1, 2010 found that the two clads of Sanzinia presently considered subspecies are actually more distantly related than the two "species" of Acrantophis). Again, thank you for the input.

What I am interested in is how the green coloration might be carried. Two of my animals are very green and not greenish like most S.m. madagascarensis I've encountered. Any idea is the green dom/res, multi allelic, or co-dom. If I ever figure out how to post photos, I'll put some up. There are photos of them on moreliapythons.com.

Excellent. I am glad to hear that you are both knowledgable about Sanzinia phylogenetics and that you are not cross two subspecies.

I look forward to seeing pictures soon. You can simply upload to a photobucket account, then paste in the link here. If you need assistance please let me know.

Regards
Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

I'm trying to see if I can do this photo thing. If I succeded, this is a photo of my two "males" locked up.

trying again

Do you think the blue/grey male could be an intergrade between a Mandarin and a Green? Just a thought. Do you know his full history?

They look stunning. If you produce an Green's, please contact me as I am interested in a pair or reverse trio.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

That one almost looks axanthic to me.

No, I've seen six animals from the clutch that produced the purple male, they're all good S.m. madagascarensis. (I own 2.2 from the clutch and a friend has 1.1. Gila91 has one of my pairs.) The purple male is a typical looking animal, except the ground color (and that the cream markings on the tail are starting to turning a salmon/orange color). Certainly any of the Sanzinia in the states could be the result of crossing as the western "sub-species" was only recognised a few years ago. However, all these snakes appear similar to the greens and all but this male have the greenish tinge typical of the "sub-species".

I'll probably be unable to control bragging if I actually get any offspring, so I'll let you know if I do.

I know people in Europe breed more of these guys than we do here in the states. Any ideas on color carrying genetics from over there??

Looks like a S.m.m. and a S.m.volontony to me. I understand that we're dealing with a picture sent on a computer screen, but I have a nice big male "mandarin" with similar colors.. at least as far as colors on a computer screen go.

Doug T

>>trying again
>>

Doug Taylor Reptiles

Well, I've reviewed Venes and Glaw's description fairly extensively. The labial and infralabial counts check out on all the snakes indicating that they are madagascarensis. The siblings to this purple animal are all getting a greenish cast, although easterns don't apparently always become green. The diagnostic character is that the voltany never have a greenish color, as opposed to the madagascarensis that usually, (but not always), have a greenish color. The authors warn that their coloration descriptions are based on a very small number of animals and may not be reliable.

I'm not sure how else to to confirm (or refute) the ID. I'm planning to call MVZ and Cal Academy at some point to review their specimens, but based on the original subspecies descriptions, these things are all easterns.

If anyone has any other "subspecies" characters I can use, I'd appreciate finding out what they are.

If you've checked it all out, then S.m.m. it is. Cameras and computer screens can make one thing look like another. My male volontony with similar coloration would never be confused for a green. At some point, without provenance, we just have to trust what we see in front of us.

Best of luck with the breeding.

Doug T

>>Well, I've reviewed Venes and Glaw's description fairly extensively. The labial and infralabial counts check out on all the snakes indicating that they are madagascarensis. The siblings to this purple animal are all getting a greenish cast, although easterns don't apparently always become green. The diagnostic character is that the voltany never have a greenish color, as opposed to the madagascarensis that usually, (but not always), have a greenish color. The authors warn that their coloration descriptions are based on a very small number of animals and may not be reliable.
>>
>>I'm not sure how else to to confirm (or refute) the ID. I'm planning to call MVZ and Cal Academy at some point to review their specimens, but based on the original subspecies descriptions, these things are all easterns.
>>
>>If anyone has any other "subspecies" characters I can use, I'd appreciate finding out what they are.

I always thought it is the other way round, the Mandarin (western) form is madagascariensis volontany and the green (eastern) form is madagascariensis madagascariensis?

>>I always thought it is the other way round, the Mandarin (western) form is madagascariensis volontany and the green (eastern) form is madagascariensis madagascariensis?

Yes, you are correct.

Funny, I didn't notice the error till you pointed it out. I think Warren mixed them up accidentally. I'm sure he meant it the other way.

Have you been cycling your Sanzinia? You probably already know this but they are prolific copulators....its the end result that stumps most. Multiple males and a solid NTL to as low as in the 50s will really improve your chances of a viable litter.

I've just now started cooling mine gradually and will endup w/a NTL of around 57F or so for a good 60 days. Then in go both males for a chaperoned courtship.

Bill

Thanks Bill,

Mine have been breeding for the past month or so and temps are often in the 50's at night. Whether things take or not, I'll have to wait and see. As I pointed out, my number one male turned out to be a female, so I just have the one right now. He's doing a great job....we'll see.

Lucky you! It was 70F today here in Vegas! Time to run the ac in winter! Unbelieveable, lol

Bill