Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had two females drop litters today. 1 had 6 pinkies and the other had 10. I currently have them in their own tubs to raise the young.

Can I put them in the same tub since all of their babies are the same age?

I'm asking because I could really use the tub space to help clear out some of the other rats. I also have 2 more females that look like they're going to drop babies very soon.

If they drop babies tomorrow could I potentially put all 4 of the mothers and there litters in the same tub for at least a week or two?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks always,
Anthony-

>>I had two females drop litters today. 1 had 6 pinkies and the other had 10. I currently have them in their own tubs to raise the young.
>>
>>Can I put them in the same tub since all of their babies are the same age?
>>
>>I'm asking because I could really use the tub space to help clear out some of the other rats. I also have 2 more females that look like they're going to drop babies very soon.
>>
>>If they drop babies tomorrow could I potentially put all 4 of the mothers and there litters in the same tub for at least a week or two?
>>
>>I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.
>>
>>Thanks always,
>>Anthony-

How big are the tubs? Personally I raise mine together, that way I know they get along before they pop babys. At this point I would give them a couple days before moving them or they are likely to lose it. It seems like they are small litters and you don't want them not settling in as moms before you stir them up.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sonya, thanks for the reply.

Tubs are the freedom breeder rat tubs. I think they are approximately 16L x 12W x 7H. I keep a 1.5 breeding colony in 1 tub and separate the expected moms prior to parturition. Then I add more females to the breeding colony to replace the ones I removed. I believe this was the first litter for each of the two mothers previously mentioned. They didn't look as pregnant as the other (larger) females I have who haven't dropped yet. The 2 females who I thought would drop today are twice the size of the first females, and they still haven't dropped.

I wean rats at 3.5 weeks and then add the mom back to the breeding box. Any idea of how I could improve on this system? Any idea how many new moms I could put in one of these tubs? I'd like to maximize the use of the space as I am limited to 5 birthing boxes.

Thanks,
Anthony-

I wouldn't put any rats in with the birthing moms or moms who are rearing babies...even if they were all together before...even just a day separate can cause the mothers to attack the intruder..even if they haven't given birth yet. IF separated for a couple hours should be fine to put them back together.

personally, I think the best way to breed rats is to keep them in small groups, 1:3 works best I think...and not separate females. They will often communally raise the babies, though this works best if all females have babies within a few days of each other. Females who are more than a week later in giving birth compared to the other females in the same box, her babies are more likely to die, as the larger babies of the other females can easily push the pinkies away from teats.. SO separating late pregnancy females from already nursing mothers would be best...and try to regroup them so litters are bore close together.

With a limitation of only 5 tubs...best to dedicate 3-4 of those tubs for breeding groups, and one for weaned rats to grow to the size you need. Be careful about weaning too young, if the baby isn't fully weaned...separating them from their mother could result in it not growing as fast or worse, slowly dehydrating and dying. I had this happen to several babies who I removed from the mother too soon...they weren't as old as i thought..and they just didn't grow at all...and within a week were dead. Keeping them with their mothers for that extra half week or so, ensures they are fully weaned and they often put on more weight too, so they are more robust and continue to grow well on solid food.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

So if I were to leave 3 females in one tub and just rotate the male from one tub to the next 1 week at a time, this would allow 3 mothers to birth together, and there would be no need to separate them?

Thanks,
Anthony

I don't think that is what was posted.

>I think the best way to breed rats is to keep them in small groups, 1:3 works best <

>even just a day separate can cause the mothers to attack the intruder<

While she was specifically addressing removing mothers and returning them the same is true for how they will treat a male that is introduced/reintroduced to an existing colony of females.
It's been my experience that if the male is not removed the females will kill him.

When setting up new breeding groups it works best to start with younger animals that are not quite ready to breed yet. If using animals from a grow out tub that have been raised together from weaning then I would pick an unrelated male and 3 or more females that are of the same age, preferably ones that if not full siblings that are from the same colony. Then introduce these to their breeding tub at the same time. Since the females already know the male there usually is no problem. Then all can grow to maturity together and more often that not the females will cycle within 2 or 3 days of each other and the resulting clutches will be about the same age. As Sonya pointed out clutches born too long after other mothers have produced the new pinks may get pushed off the teat and not thrive or worse.

If starting a new colony from scratch I still try to obtain young animals not quite ready to breed. Then I will introduce the male to the breeding tub and give him a day to establish himself then introduce the females. I still try for females about the same age and preferably ones that have been at least living together to minimize conflict.

Removing and reintroducing animals to a colony causes disruption in the continuity of the colony and the animals just react to protect their territory. Even if it's male or female that they have been with before.

Males, especially rats males in my experience are good fathers and I have often seen them grooming and playing with their babies. Females that cycle closely together will raise their babies communally and there normally are few if any problems.

On the rare occaision that I have a male that is not a good father and either maims, kills and often will eat his babies he is removed from the breeding group and I select a new male. Again I let him have a day or two alone to establish himself then introduce the females to his tub. In this instance I will try to use an older male that is either just ready to breed or about to reach that age. The females should not be pregnant or have any young to introduce as the male will most likely kill them as they are not his and he knows it.

Hopefully I expressed this so that it makes sense, it did to me as I wrote it but that's me.

I have a good bit of experience with colony breeding but Sonya and PHLadyPayne have even more so hopefully they will come back and correct any of my errors.

Mice should be handled similarly to rats. I find mice can be a little more problematic than rats but they can be successfully established as breeding colonies.

As an aside I really enjoy watching the interaction in my rat colonies. They are a joy to watch and very caring, attentive parents.

Hope this helps.
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
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