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Experts, I need your medical advice.

sharif Jan 16, 2011 10:51 AM

Hello forum, I haven't posted in a while but do check out postings from time to time.

For those that may not remember me, I have 3 testudo Kleinmanni tortoises (Egyptian tortoises). One adult male that's been part of my family since 1997 (my guess on his age would be around 15-16 years of age) and 2 younger adults (roughly 5 years of age or so) with one male and one female. The two younger ones are kept together, while the older male is kept in his own area. The two males cannot be left alone or else they become aggressive.

Now, the older male has been sick for some time now. I've been taking him to a veterinarian that was highly recommended. They've done cultural testings, fecal testings, X-rays as well as prescription medications that were to be administered. Nothing has worked to this date. The tortoise has been eating normally and relatively active, although he had a clear liquid discharge coming from its nostrils and every once in a while a wheezing/cough can be heard.

I have since moved from the area where I used to live and live several hours away. However, I felt as though the veterinarian was not all that knowledgeable. Not knowing if its an aquatic or land "turtle" should have been a red flag. Having the staff send out lab papers with some saying "sulcata" and others saying "rushan tortoise" also speaks volume of who they hire. They've been told on numerous occasions but simply don't listen.

I'm now located in Youngstown, Ohio and cannot find any recommended vet clinics in my area. I'm hesitant to go to a vet clinic that knows dogs/cats with limited reptile knowledge. So I'm now hoping I can get some guidance on what to do.

I've requested copies of what was done at the other vet clinic.

Past prescribed medications include the following:
Fortaz(100mg/ml) Inj.
Amikacin Sulfate 50mg/ml
Amikacin 250mg/ml Inj.
Panacur (for deworming)

Lab tests on nasal discharge showed the following:
E. coli (moderate growth)
Peudmonas species (moderate growth)
Micrococcus species (light growth)

Other tests also showed the following:
moderate growth of Citrobacter Freundii
light growth of Coagulase Negative Staph.

Recently, as of the last 2 days I found my adult male to be more lethargic than usual. He still eats, but in the past he would empty his plate. I noticed that his left eye seems to be irritated and keeps it close. I've used Clear Eyes brand eye rinse as of last night to rinse his eyes. I'm not entirely sure if this is becoming an infection or if its simply a sand particle that might have caused an irritation.

All of my tortoises have excellent shells, no pyramiding whatsoever. I have a heat lamp that turns on at 7AM and off at 9:30 PM with night time temperature falling to 68*F. A UV light is also turned on at the same time. I figure since these are desert animals that they can tolerate temperture changes. They are kept on play sand substrate and have not had any problems. Food is placed on ceramic dishes to minimize sand digestion. Water bowl is also supplied but I have not seen any of them make use of it. I try to soak them in luke warm water once a week for 15 minutes.

With the info I wrote, can anyone please recommend what I should be doing? Its been frustrating getting them back to the healthy stage as they've been more or less the same for the past 4-5 years.

Replies (3)

emysbreeder Jan 16, 2011 09:44 PM

Dude, you got ripped! I'm no Vet but I learned a few things. Here is what I think it is. They might have had a Protazoa infestation from just living together for five years. Very common. This untreated can cause a suppressed immune system to not work as good as it should.(stress) Other G.I.track disorders can follow. Sometimes they will eat BUT not as much. Anyway,without getting real involved the ONE med. he/she did not give you was Metronidazol.The one you need most! Also they will need to get back a normal gut floura because it was surley killed off with Amikacin. If a Vet doesnt chime in here with info.doses ect. get with me by email victortoise@bellsouth.net and we'll get-er-done. You should'nt have had to go through all that. Get them to eat some yogert or even pull some weeds out of the yard with the roots (little dirt is perfect but just a touch.) Or Ben-a-back (ssp??)for birds. Keep'em hydrated. Of cource we could be going down the wrong rd, but I always start from the poop end. Dust is bad too in captivity even though they are arid critters. Best of luck. Vic Morgan

drsam Mar 19, 2011 04:58 AM

Emysbreeder makes a good point here. In doing a complete evaluation you should (the vet) have checked the stool by doing a direct microscope slid inspection of the stool and a float for worms. In any case Flagyl (Metronidazole) is not a bad place to start as it is an appetite stimulant and he is right, as soon as they get stressed it is not unusual to see Protozoa.

What do the stools look like, If he is having any? I used Amakacin extensively at one time its not a big gut flora killer.
Basically you’re all the way back to the beginning without the test results you have no idea what you’re dealing with.

Not only that, if you do need to dose him with Flygel you will probably find he will not eat it, even in food so you have to tube him.
If you don’t have experience Tubing a turtle or Tortoise you are getting in over your head.
Try to find someone competent to help you.

Sam

drsam Mar 05, 2011 05:58 AM

Sorry for the late reply I just saw your post, don’t know if you’re still having problems but I will start here.

What were the dosages you or the vet administered to the animal?
You have given the concentration of the drug in solution but not the dose rate.
Do not let the temperatures drop at night, keep the animal around 86 degrees they need their metabolism up or they cant even metabolize the drugs you are giving them.

Your culture reports don’t show signs of anything pathogenic, but keep in mind these reports are not very diagnostic for two reasons
#1 you don’t always get the germ in the discharge and
#2 you always have so much contamination your not really sure what you are culturing in the first place.

Now I cant give you medical advise and I think you should go to a competent Tortoise vet but we had a very similar situation and what I did was
Inject with Baytril 5mg/kg im and then 20% dilution of Baytril in half ml and shot 1/4ml in each nostril (1/4 ml 20% solution Baytril)
Keep that animal at 86 degrees

Good luck with your animal.

Sam Pascucci

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