Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am selling off my black milk snake pair, and pretty much all of my current snakes so that I can get one of these. However I am trying to decide what the best one for me would be. I really like Black Tail Cribos and Uni's, and of course I have always wanted a solid black Indigo. But I have to pick one right now. I am wondering if the care on Cribo's is much different than an Indigo? I scoured the internet and get mixed results of info so I thought I could get better info in here. Is it true Cribo's need higher temps than Indigos? Which is the hardier of the two? I dont want to spend a ton of money and mess this up so I'd rather get the one that will be most forgiving of any mistakes I might make which I intend to keep nill of course. But like my black milks which are very hard to mess up with, I'd like to go with the one that will be the easier of the two to keep up with if there is even a difference. Thanks for any thoughts!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I'd recommend unicolor to start. Nice ones aren't too costly. They grow large, do well kept in the 70's to low 80's, and are generally mild-mannered super nice snakes. It's enjoyable to raise any Drymarchon from hatchling to adult, observing changes which occur. When you're comfortable with these, nice red-throat Eastern indigos are still the most beautiful Drymarchon. Photos are hatchling Eastern and unicolor from past years.

Thanks Steve!!! Those are some gorgeous uni's you have there! Wow!!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I currently have 6 Drys...I have two pairs of 2009 eastern indigos and a pair of 2010 black tail cribos.

I am a biology teacher, so I have all six snakes in my classroom...the kids handle them all the time and I never worry. All six snakes have wonderful temperaments and have been very easy to care for. They basically stay at room temperature of which is in the low 70s right now. I currently have them in simple cages-Tupperware like containers, paper towel type bedding, and a nice hide box that I lightly mist every few days. This makes them very easy to clean and helps maintain humidity levels.

A pair of black tails will save you some funds and I know that there are still some available online. They are like the unicolors. I bought them from Kevin Jarvis and John Michels...they were great to deal with.

Eastern indigos are more of an investment, but worth every penny. They are magnificent animals...there is something special about seeing that indigo blue skin when they are in natural sunlight. It is spectacular. One pair is from Steve Fuller and the other pair is from Vick Herrick and Robert Harper. They are outstanding breeders and highly recommended...very fair in their prices.

Both species are very hardy. As long as you keep them from getting too warm and give them fresh water regularly, they will flourish for you.

I hope this helps. Good luck in your search. Trust me when I say that it is an addictive hobby!!

Sounds like you have some terrific specimens there!!! It looks like I will be getting a young female Texas Indigo in a trade for my most of my entire collection (needing to scale down a bit anyhow). So I am really excited to be moving into Dry's! I know mine wont be as purdy as an Eastern....but to be able to say that I have an Indigo....well that's pretty exciting for me as I never thought I would be able to say that!

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

That is awesome. You will enjoy it. Like I said, they are very addictive. You will see thet it is hard to own just one!

I have tried to download some pictures of my male easterm from Steve Fuller.

There are some great people out there in the hobby to get some advice from. I know that Steve Fuller has texas indigos and has done well with them. He is great to go for when you need advice.

Best of luck and welcome to the cult!

Regards,
Chris

Yeah I seriously cant wait!! Hmmm I dont think your image came through there...oh well

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Here are the pictures. He was htached in July of 2009. These were taken in the spring of 2010. This male was produced by Steve Fuller and he is almost 5 feet long now.

Good luck to you and congrats again on the investment.

Chris

Gorgeous!!! I hope mine will grow quickly for me too!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

He did...He was a slow starter, but really took off after he was about 4 months old. Now he rarely refuses a meal.

Here are some pictres of my female from Steve Fuller. She is 4 feet long. The advice that I got was that it is hard to overfeed them in their first two years. Some people think there is a connection bewteen a steady healthy diet in their first two years and how large they will be when they are adults. I guess I will find out!

Gorgeous!!!The one I am getting is about 4 months too. I usually do the typical once a week feedings for my others, but I think I will do at least twice a week with this one...at least!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Congrats on getting the Texas Indigo, that is a sweet pick up. Texans are awesome in their own right.

I had Easterns back in the day, late 70's early 80's.

Currently have black tails from John Michaels of Black Pearl Reptile, an excellent source for true "black" tails.

High contrast yellow tails from Frieght Frietas.

I would highly recommend either species and breeders.

Here's some pics of the parents of mine.
John's male BT first, then Freight's Dam and Sire.

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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

Well I lost the trade darnit! The gentleman backed out on me due to second thoughts. Can't say I blame him though. So I won't be part of the Dry club now for a bit. But I will keep trying to be!! Just gotta get my current collection sold and downsized a lot so I can afford and fit one of these awesome guys into the house.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Sorry to hear about the trade but sometimes these things happen for good reasons.

I know John @ Black Pearl still has some available. He's always willing to work out payment plans and has excellent quality drys. Just a thought maybe a small down payment with the balance when you sell off your collection.

This also gives you time to research some of the other breeders mentioned. Perhaps start a correspondence with some now and decide who you might want to get some 2011 babies from as well as hone in on which you want to start with. Because you know you won't stop with just one. LOL
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BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.
1.2 P. m. melanoleucus B/W N. J. Northern Pines
1.2 P. d. deppei Mexican Pines
2.2 P. l. lineaticollis Linis or Lined Pines
1.2 P. m. lodingi Black Pines
0.3 P. c. sayi Kingsville X Stillwater red bulls
1.1 Drymarchon melenurus Blacktail Cribo
1.2 D. corais Yellowtail Cribos
1.2 M. s. cheynei Jungle Carpet
2.6 L. p. pyromelana Arizona Mt. Kings
1.1 L. g. californiae B/W Cali kings
0.0.3 M. f. flagellum Eastern Coachwhips
1.2 G. m. bottegoi Western Plated lizards

>> Because you know you won't stop with just one. LOL>>

I have to say I completely agree with this sentiment. I was the one who was going to trade with Markus. I've been wanting to work with black milks ever since I lost one of the juvies I had a few years ago and sold the other because I was so disappointed. It was a great opportunity, though I think the deal was honestly far slanted in my favor because of the sheer number and quality of animals Markus was offering. The longer I thought about it though the more I realized I really didn't want to loose the opportunity to raise this little female Texan. In the end I think it worked out best for us both because he really has his heart set on an eastern (who can blame him?!) and after raising my eastern for the past couple of years I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. I'm just hoping my little Texan turns into as nice of a snake as the eastern has...right now she can be a little spitfire!

Best of luck to you Markus!
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Chance Duncan
Science Teacher, Herp Enthusiast, and Reptilian Conservation Proponent
www.rvexotics.com

Chance, I really appreciate you coming on here and saying what you did and even identifying yourself as the one I was in the trade talks with. I have zero problem with your decision and I am certain I would have probably done the same had I switched places with you! You have been nothing but awesome and kind in this whole thing and I am grateful to know you now! Onwards and upwards and if you ever get an extra Indigo you dont have room for.....you know who to email
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

I am really sorry that the deal did not go through for you. Everything happens for a reason and another opportunity will open up for you...I am sure of it.

If you are looking to research some breeders, here is what I know...

Gary Kettring and Lloyd Heilbrunn sell nice BT's.
Kevin Jarvis - I bought my female BT from him. She is probably the most docile snake in my collection. The others are not aggressive by any sort, but she seems to thrive on being held. Kevin sends a care DVD with all his animals.
John Michels - I bought my male BT from him. He is very honest and fair. He works with you to help you become a part of the hobby and is very quick to respond to any of your questions.
Vick Herrick - I have one of his 2009 females and, if you purchase an indigo from him, it will be BIG when you get it! The female he sold me is a diverse eater and about 4 feet long! Vick was also nice enough to do the leg work to trade one of his 2009 males with one of Robert Harper's 2009 males. (Rob is another great breeder). I really wanted to have one black phase indigo in my collection. Vick drove out to meet Rob in California and make this possible. He will listen to any of your questions and always provides sound advice. Both he and Rob are very fair with their indigo prices. They both want you to be happy with their animals because these animals have been so rewarding to them.
Steve Fuller - Great breeder and an even better person. Steve helped me own my first pair of indigos. I was fortunate to find a breeder who lived 15 minutes from me! I have seen his animals and they are fantastic! He will help you with the permit process and, like the other breeders I have mentioned, offers great advice.

I hope this helps. I have been a Drymarchon owner for only two years and I love it. The people mentioned above all made that possible in some way. They are honest people and that is important to know when you are investing so much money.

Good luck in your search. Just make sure you have enough room in your house because you can't have just one!

Chris

Each of these breeders

Yeah I will recover and I look at it as a good thing so that I can acquire what I truly want to get as my first Dry! Thank you for the great info Chris!! I will try to keep myself to only one, but I'm sure that will prove to be way too difficult
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."