Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like everyone's opinion on this, especially those with bigger outdoor enclosures and multiple boxies.

I am considering whether or not to add more boxies this year. As it stands, I have a male adult 3-toed and two male juvenile/sub-adult Easterns. Now, I would want to add females, but I want everyone's opinion on how many I would need to keep a healthy and non-aggressive group, considering the amount of space they will have.

I am in the process of constructing a whole new enclosure. It will take up the old footprint of my 100 square foot pen, and their night pen area and a flowerbed. All told, it will be around 550-600 square feet. It will be heavily planted, and because of the geometry, it will have lots of breaks in sightlines. Also, I'm installing a shallow, five by five pond as well as a small bog. Again, both will be heavily planted.

Most recommendations set the minimum female to male ratio at two females to one male. If I add four Easterns and two 3-toed females, is this enough space for 9 boxies and will this ratio of 6 females to 3 males keep harmony? I know several some say to keep males and females separate, and I know some say if your pen is big enough with enough hiding places and breaks, they will be fine kept together.

I just want to get a feel for if my enclosure would be big enough to keep a group that size together without much fighting from males and harassment of females...

What are your plans for the young that will result?

Well, as of now, I plan to headstart them inside for at least a year and then adopt them out.

I would think if you want to captive breed (which certainly has its appeal) then since you already have an male 3-toe, start with a couple adult female 3-toes and see how it goes before buying a bunch. You might want to avoid buying wild caughts, and if you are patient you might be able to find captive born and raised adults. On the other hand, wild caughts may breed more readily for you. Alternatively you could raise up a group of CBBs yourself, if you have lots of patience, and I mean a lot of patience, lol.
Your 3-toed male probably won't even bother your juvi easterns if that is what you are worried about, he won't see them as competition, but that could change when they get bigger, and you may or may not be concerned with producing hybrids at some point, no judging either way here.
Heck Curtis, it's your turtle pen and your the one that has to take care of them.
more turtles = more work lol, like you don't already know that.
Have fun building your new turtle pen.
-----
Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

Thanks, Jeff. I was hoping you would add your two cents.

If/when I do add some females, I will definitely adopt healthy adults from rescuses or individuals. I'm not too concerned with them producing right away or at all. I have the standpoint that I want to give my torts a life as close to what they would have in nature, and mating is a big part of that! ha ha. I think starting with two female 3-toeds is what I've been leaning toward for this year, I just also want to get a handle on how to progress longterm.

I don't mind the work, but I also don't want to be stressed to find 50 hatchlings a home each year...

I'd definately separate the Three Toes from the Easterns. They will interbreed and you won't know what the offspring are. You'd have an easier time placing "pure" Easterns and Three Toeds, rather than potential crosses.

The ratio largely depends on the turtles themselves. I have 3.3 Gulf Coasts in the same pen and while the males occasionally fight, its never anything serious.

Tim

As of now, I'm not going to separate them. I hope that by adding females slowly, sub-species will stick together, but if they don't, 3-toeds and Easterns interbreed in nature.

You're missing my point. Of course they'll interbreed. You're going to have less luck placing turtles if you do not know what they are than if you know for sure if they're 100% Easterns or 100% Three-toeds.

Tim