Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hopefully you rosyboa field enthusiasts can answer. I recently was driving on highway 38 into the San Bernardino Mtns just outside the town of Mentone, CA. Lots of chaparral habitat and rocks as you enter the mtns. I have never heard of rosies from that particular area. Seems a bit wooded and shady for rosies, so my guess is no. Does anyone know if they occur there?
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Mark

Yeah, I've seen reports of them being there.

oh, and if you find any there, please consider contributing images to the image project.
Thanks
Josh

http://borderboas.com/

The report I mentioned was by Jim Bass, who reported seeing a rosy there back in the 70s, and I'm not sure where exactly.
He posts on other forums as hellihooks.

And very cool info Mr. Hoyer.

Thanks, and good to know. I had hoped that to be the case.

There is one area in particular where the chapparal breaks and the sun-exposed rock expanse is just insane. It is more jagged and steep than rosy habitat I am used to in Riverside county, which is why I asked.
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Mark

Mark:
As a graduate in wildlife science and a field biologist, I am a firm believer in habitat association. That is, if species 'X' has been documented at sites A and C with similar habitat characteristics, but not at site B with the same type of habitat, it can be predicted with a high degree of confidence and probability that species 'X' occurs at site B.

When I was doing my study on the Southern Rubber Boa in the San Bernardino Mts. between 1993 and 1997, I drove highways 18, 330 and 30 up into the San Bernardino Mts. At between the 2500 and 3500 foot level on Hwy. 18, I encountered a fresh DOR Rosy Boa. There is similar, if not identical habitat east of highway 18 along highways 330, 38, and to the east where the Rosy has been documented. So the odds are overwhelming that the boa occurs somewhere in the vicinity of Hwy. 38.

As an example of predicting species occurrence via habitat association, simply by knowing the elevation then viewing the habitat on the Scodie Mts. with binoculars, it appear that suitable Rubber Boa habitat occurred at the upper elevations of that small mountain range. The species had been found on the Southern Kern Plateau to the north and Piute Mts, Breckenridge Mt. and Greenhorn Mts to the west.
Although the habitat was somewhat different in the Sodies from that in the Piutes, Breckenridge and Greenhorns to the west, it was quite similar to habitat in parts of the S. Kern Plateau near Kennedy meadows where the Rubber Boa had been documented. Thus in 2000, I predicted the boa would likely occur in the Scodies which then turned out to be confirmed in 2002.

Similarly, the species was first found in 2002 on Frazier Mt. just west of Tejon Pass with habitat quite similar to where the boa had been documented earlier on Mt. Pinos to the west and Alamo Mt. to the south. Then in the mid 1990's, it was easy to predict that the SRB occurred on Yucaipa Ridge which had both the elevation and similar habitat to where the SRB has been documented in nearby areas of the San Bernardino Mts.. That turned out to be a reality just a few years ago.

Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)

Thank you for that information, Richard. Very interesting about those relatively recent finds of rubber boa.

Regarding the southern rubber boa, are they considered absent from the San Gabriel Mtns? Places I have seen rubber boas in the San Jacinto mtns were always quite flat, and there is not much flat in the San Gabriels. I have always wondered if any have turned up in the San Gabriels.
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Mark

Mark:
The San Gabriel Mts. appear to be an example where the 'exception proves the rule'. That is, although seemingly possessing similar habitat at suitable elevations where the Rubber Boa has been documented in the San Bernardino Mts. to the east and Alamo Mt., Frazier Mt., Mt. Pinos, and Mt. Abel to the west, to my knowledge, the Rubber Boa has not been documented as occurring in the San Gabriel Mts. Over the years, there have been a number of unconfirmed anecdotal accounts of the species being observed in the San Gabriels but no confirming documentation.

The same situation applied to a reported population of the species in San Luis Obispo County. Over the years, there had been a handful of sightings of the species particularly in Montana de Oro Park right on the coast. But then last May, a gentleman photographed a specimens found on a trail in that park which constitutes a photographic voucher confirming the existence of the species in that region of Calif.

The San Gabriels have another puzzle that as far as I know, has defied explanation. The blotched form of Ensatina occurs at the far eastern end of the San Bernardino Mts., on Breckenridge Mts., in the Tehachapi Mts., on Mt. Abel, and Mt. Pinos and on the Tejon Ranch property right along I-5 at Tejon Pass. Yet that form of Ensatina so far, appears to be absent from the just east of I-5 through the San Gabriel Mts. and most of the San Bernardino where the plain brown or 'Monterey' form of Ensatina replaces the black / yellow blotched form.

This is know as 'Bob's Gap' after Dr. Robert Stebbins whose major research involved the distribution of the various forms of Ensatina.

Richard F. Hoyer

Thanks for that information. The discussion is very timely - I just read an informative manuscript from the early 70s documenting a in-depth sampling of reptiles and amphibians from the San Gabriels. Seems to be a fickle area, and the gap in the Ensatina range was also discussed, as was the apparent lack of any specimens of rubber boa. Also mentioned was the nearly complete disappearance of the coachwhip from the coastal side of those mtns where they once were more common (probably soley due to development of coastal sage scrub habitat).

I've visited Montana De Oro on a few occasions. Neat area, and I wondered about the possibility of zonata and rubber boas there. Probably very difficult to find in that habitat without artificial cover, or getting lucky.

One more comment/question for you: I visited the town of Sequim in northern Washington, right on Sequim Bay adjacent to the Olympic Natl Forest. There are some open clearings there among forest that look just like the pics of the Oregon habitat you have on your website.

A local told me he saw a rubber boa there. Seems like everyone up there is a hunter and knows something about animals, but you know how it goes with reports of reptiles - you never know if the person saw a gophersnake and calls it a rubber boa. Any confirmed reports from up that way? Thanks..
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Mark

Mark:
First, I do not have a web site so I suspect you are referring to my son Ryan's 'Rubber Boa' web site. Ryan lives in Utah.

The Rubber Boa has an extensive distribution in Washington that includes much of the state similar to Oregon and Idaho. As for the Olympic Peninsula, I once surveyed a boa found at Lake Crescent about 10 -12 miles west of Port Angeles and have had reliable report of the species occurring further south and east of Port Angeles. Since Sequim is east of Port Angeles, the boa simply has to occur in the vicinity of Sequim.

I visited Montana De Oro park once at lower elevations just to see the habitat. It has been my experience that the use of artificial cover enhances encounters of the boa (and many other species) in many types of habitat including where there is an abundance of rocks / rock outcrops.

Richard F. Hoyer

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Mark

I am 27 years old, and I have been into and loved reptiles all of my life. I moved from California to Washington in 1991, and was excited to see what reptiles this state had to offer. I learned of the rubber boa, and fell in love. I was living in Gig Harbor, right by the Tacoma Narrows Airport, and would always check under this board in an open pocket in the woods, right buy the airport. I would always find garter snakes. One day I looked and to my dissapointment saw nothing. On further exam, I saw I brown, beautiful rubber boa!!! In Gig Harbor! I don't have a pic, but it was a rubber boa 100 percent positive. I have never seen one since, but I haven't really looked. Do you know of any great spots in WA that are known to have these snakes in abundance? I now live in Tacoma, and am going to go looking for some soon. So they def have to be in Squim too if I found one in Gig Harbor! Thanks so much