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My brother and I just returned from a trip to Ethiopia to look for the giant Ethiopian Leopard tortoises. Pictured is a 28" giant male that we found. The typical male was 24"-28" and the typical female was a few inches smaller.

Kind of makes those little p. pardalis in South Africa like Car Jack who was 24" look small!

I think it has to be a new subspecies. It currently would be classified as Stigmochelys pardalis babcocki; but due to size, coloration the fact that males grow larger than females (most babcocki the males are smaller)I don't consider it babcocki, so I'll name it after my brother and I and call it S. pardalis fifeii. Sounds reasonable to me!

Hope you enjoy the photo.

HOLY GAINT TORTOISE BATMAN! or should I say tortoisemen with pardalis blood and DNA from tortoises gods!"Winning" You guy's have found a new sub.in my humble opinion. Congrads bigtime, that is a huge tortoise and your right-on with your taxonomy logic on why it should be a new subspecies.(how about head size/shape plate count ect??. Now, get on over to Asia and find me the possable 3rd subsp. M.e.phayrei, that should be on the faimed Crumbly & Crumbly's* 1990 ultra simplistic and Scientificly lazy location of the North/South "cline". You can do it and, Yea! vicmorgani seems reasonable. Very good work guy's, Peter Pritchard, and other grate Herpetologest would be proud of you. This my friends is HERP.HISTORY! Vic Morgan

Thanks for the comments Vic. Good luck with your tortoises, hopefully they did alright during your cold winter.

It's nice to finally have warm weather in AZ, all the tortoises are laying.

Thanks, Its been so dry here for the last two years I dont know if the males are getting the seasonal "clue". Five female phayrei in nesting mode this week. I just hope if I hatch them, I can sell them!!! Demand is slooooow. Vic

Any chance there is some Sulcata blood in them?

Hummmm, good question, but do you mean the Fife Bros or the Ethipian leopard the found? VM

The African Spurred tortoise does not currently range in this area but perhaps many years ago it did. It would be great if we could do genetic testing of these tortoises.

Very nice. I do hope it will be compared to the South African race also. I still think they are different races of the same species.

>>My brother and I just returned from a trip to Ethiopia to look for the giant Ethiopian Leopard tortoises. Pictured is a 28" giant male that we found. The typical male was 24"-28" and the typical female was a few inches smaller.
>>
>>Kind of makes those little p. pardalis in South Africa like Car Jack who was 24" look small!
>>
>>I think it has to be a new subspecies. It currently would be classified as Stigmochelys pardalis babcocki; but due to size, coloration the fact that males grow larger than females (most babcocki the males are smaller)I don't consider it babcocki, so I'll name it after my brother and I and call it S. pardalis fifeii. Sounds reasonable to me!
>>
>>Hope you enjoy the photo.
>>
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

that is really a cool picture and great info, thanks for sharing!

Come on Ed, give me the fifeii? Vic's willing. It was great to see them. We found a little 20" male that barely showed sexual characteristics, the plastron was much flatter than my little 9" adult males at home.

The masses are in your favor... if you can have a hobbyest come up with a new genus and species based on one specimen (re Furculachelys nebeulensis...) You should have no problem... except for naming it after yourself... under the guise of your brothers name.

Sounded like a wonderful trip. I envy you for it.

>>Come on Ed, give me the fifeii? Vic's willing. It was great to see them. We found a little 20" male that barely showed sexual characteristics, the plastron was much flatter than my little 9" adult males at home.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Unfortunately Jerry and I can’t really have claim to a new subspecies. Recent DNA research, which was published in the “Journal of Zoological Systematics and Evolutionary Research”, 18 January 2010, by Fritz, Daniels, Hofmeyer, Gonzalez, Barrio-Amoros, Siroky, Hundsdorfer, and Stuckas have concluded that the usage of subspecies within S. pardalis should be abandoned. Their work included DNA from the giant Ethiopian leopard Tortoises, S. p. babcocki, and S. p. pardalis.

It was an indescribable experience to see these giant tortoises in the wild. We found a total of 18 tortoises, which included, wild tortoises, captive tortoises, and tortoise shells. Our adventure involved nearly 10-days of travel throughout Ethiopia, which required an armed military escort for part of our expedition and permission from native tribes to cross their lands in the Great African Rift Valley and Ethiopian highlands.

Richard

Hi Richard and Jerry;

What a terrific trip! Would love to see the slide show. With all respect due to the paper and the researchers Richard quoted I have always felt Leopard Tortoises were a family of many species. Perhaps ten or more.

The theory stems from comments of an old (in his 80's!) tortoise breeding customer and from the fact many "pairs" never reproduce, or in some groups the males reproduce with one female but not the others, all the while sibling groups seem to breed well, in the same colony and care. Plus, with different sizes, shapes and color patterns all over east Africa it lends credibility to the theory.

With respect to genetic surveys I have to ask "are you sure?". We all know that genetics can identify an individual. This is done by looking at all the "base pairs" and comparing similarities and differences. To identify a specie (or species group) we must leave out some portion of the base pairs. If the researcher chooses the wrong subset of base pairs to examine (or leave out) they will erroneously make a bad conclusion.

Years ago I was party to a "blood survey" performed at a Texas University of all species chelonia. I donated genetics from Sandy Ververka's collection. This survey concluded that all aquatic north American turtles were the same specie, except for the snappers, the wood turtle group and diamondback terrapins. Blandings, redears, cooters, redbellys, maps, painteds, western ponds were deemed all one species. To anyone familiar with these species this is clearly incorrect and the error has to be the researchers. He|| if they are all the same species how did they all stay so well segregated in the waters in which many forms co-exist?

I make no judgement on the genetic study Richard refers. Just wanting to add food for thought.

Ethiopan giant tortoises! Who woulda thunk it? I'll bet Helen Cain's 97# male came from there. That shell was HUUUGE!!

Richard and Jerry, please, show us more pix from the trip!

Click here to see the paper to which Richard refers.

Jerry - great work on your part. Did you find the huge leopards in particular game parks in Ethiopia, or in a zoo, or private collection, or where?

The key thing would be for someone to do some genetic work to see how different the big leopards in Ethiopa are from e. african babcocki.

Craig Stanford

I have a picture from a guy in the Philapines of a pair of Somalian leopard tortoises he has had for 15 years. He tells me the female weighs 380 pounds and I believe it based on the photo. She is larger than any big male sulcatta I have ever seen and is very high domed as well. The male is smaller but still a big tortoise.

Bill Zovickian has always said that (some) Leopard tortoises were the largest mainland tortoises not the G. sulcatta. I think he is right.

I think Richard already mentioned someone tested DNA from this and other populations to illustrate these are the same species as all the rest.

They are pretty impressive, aren't they? I got to see several Ethiopian giant leopard tortoises in 2015, when I traveled there. One male I saw was larger than any sulcata I have ever seen. He was massive.

In Europe, they do classify the Ethiopian and Somali leopard tortoises separately from the regular babcocki leopards. I don't know how official it is, but people call them Stigmochelys pardalis somalica in conversation. I believe the Ethiopian giants are related to the Somali giants. Ethiopian ones can't be exported, but there is a breeding group of them in Switzerland, and one in France. I wonder if it would be possible to legally export eggs that are very close to hatching. The reason for not exporting the giant leopards from Ethiopia is a certain kind of tick that carries disease - which would not be an issue in eggs. It would be important to go through the right channels, and to respect the wishes of local government and conservation efforts...

There are several breeders in Germany and Austria who produce and sell Somali giants, although at least two of them are said to have issues with mycoplasma in their group. I know three people in Germany who are currently raising somali giants they got from reputable breeders, tested negative for mycoplasma. Their animals are a few years from being breeding size, but already are impressive.
Photo of me in Addis Ababa in 2015