Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been surfing the net and looking for the Deep Red headed Eastern Indigos. I came across one but the breeder is from Italy. I think the bloodline is Nazzas?... Very beatiful snake.

Does anybody here know a breeder working with this bloodline her in United States or has something similar? I'm very interested in owning one as a pet. Please email me at declanlobusta@yahoodotcom

Thank you

Get in line.

-----
~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Nazza's red heads are a high standard, and I have not seen it achieved on our side of the pond. Selective breeding has probably enhanced the redness some of us desire. Caution on selective breeding however, as non-favorable genes may also be enhanced in our quest for subjective standards of beauty. I try to breed the most vigorous and agressive hatchlings, retaining them for breeders, and if they happen to have the most red, even better but not necessarily the highest priority. I never met an Indigo I did not like, but I too favor red heads, but even more I favor genetically diverse and vigorous breeding stock, which may slow down the selective process to achieve more and more red. Good luck on your search, and we would all be happy to see Indigos in the U.S. that rival those Nazza produced.

post taken from indigosforever.com dated 01/07/11

http://www(dot)indigosforever(dot)org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1099

nazzza

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 13

Post Reply with quote

Hello all,
I'm happy to see that are still people that has not forget my line.
Now I leave in NYC and I have no more snakes, and unfortunately my EX partner Daniele D'agostino from fineherp killed the breeder female and the other wonderful female I produced (the most beautiful female I have ever seen!!!).
He was able to kill the breeder female because he didn't noticed she was gravid, so he didn't gave her a laying box. She had 16 big eggs inside.
The other female was breed probably too young, and died after an operation for removing and egg.
I would underline the fact that, despite Daniele D'agostino (fineherp) describes himself as an indigo breeder, he never was able to breed succesfully indigos.
Now the big male is in the hands of Vincenzo Salvatico, that saved him from Daniele (the snake had a serious infection on the tail, I never understood why Daniele, despite my advices, always kept indigos in an over wet environment). Vincenzo has also some snakes produced by me and he's a really good breeder, so at least I'm sure that my line will not die.

All this is sad, and is my fault, I should have chosen a good breeder for keeping my snakes, not a friend. But it's a classic herp story:
the person I considered my best friend used me and after he killed the most fine and valuable of my snakes, he decided to no longer keep the partnership. I had to eat the loss for the time he was not able to breed anything for incapacity, I had to take the money HE decided was worth my part of the collection ( and as he said I consider myself lucky, because he gave me some money) because he gave not me the possibility to take animals, and kicked me out.

However, at least there is some hope for my line and I'm really glad to see that what I did is not forgot

Ciao

nazzza

-----
~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Wow! That's just sad.

Thanks for the info.

Thank you guys for the emails that was sent my way. Glad to know whats out there.

Because they are listed on the Endangered Species Act, no Eastern Indigos from outside the USA are ever going to be allowed back in as commerce or pets. Unless you're outside the USA, any stock from Nazza would have been beyond acquisition.

Doug T
Doug Taylor Reptiles

Greetings All:

There is some evidence to support excessive inbreeding Eastern Indigo's may contribute to high red color on the chins. I am not sure if this is the case with animals produced in Europe, but this theory makes sense since there is a smaller captive gene pool to breed stock.

Truly,

Paul Bodnar
Crocodile Wildlife Conservationist

Granted, I've not seen every captive Eastern Indigo in the United States, but what I have seen did not exhibit the reds seen in wild stock. I have an adult pair that have extensive red faces & throats, except for the fact that it's not red. It's brown. That seems to be the norm.

I know y'all just love hearing from the "old guys" about the "old days", so here goes.

I have never seen an Eastern Indigo in the wild that had brown faces. I've seen, observed, captured & kept, and purchased many Eastern Indigos in my life. The ones I captured years ago south and west of Miami; Homestead, Florida city, and even a big DOR on Big Pine Key, all had dark blood-red. Some were more vibrant than others, but they were red. Not "kind-of-red", and never brown. I purchased a snake from Hiawatha Python up in Minnesota (that gives away my age! LOL) that not only was as beautiful as the Italian snake, but had red on top of the eyes and a complete red ring around the neck. Red came up on th lower lateral scales for a quarter of its length. Now that was a VERY nice snake, but other similar snakes still exist in nature because we've seen recent photos.

Our captive stock in the U.S. is greatly inbred, even breeding reds to northern black phases (some feel there are actually two species of indigo in the Southeast). We give them non-varied diets instead of snakes, which in the wild probably makes up the greatest percentage of their diet.

We've done it wrong, and while they are absolutely remarkable snakes, I have to agree that the days of red captive Indigos in this country are over.

Cheers (sadly),

Terry Vandeventer

Terry, I certainly respect but do not fully agree with your conclusions. Are you inferring that a diet of snakes is responsible for the vibrant red one tends to see in wild snakes?

If so, maybe we can (and I assure you folks are working on it) find the nutritional components responsible. Certainly dietary suppplements influence the morphology of other taxa, i.e. birds and fish, lizards, etc.

Also, some of us do feed highly diverse diets, including snakes (readily available to me as dor's in my desert home). My snakes have a wide range of colors, some redder than others. I do agree the wild ones are often more vibrant red, and I think we will figure it out. So you make two points, you state the captives are "inbred" and you infer that dietary components from an ophidian diet is missing...which is the problem or is it both?

Forgive my ignorance, (especially as I am a biology teacher) but could UV play a role in how vibrant an indigo's colors are? These are diurnally active snakes, thus getting exposed to large amounts of UV radiation throughout their lives. Maybe a combination of diet and environment is responsible for the duller colors commonly seen in captivity?

Anyone with red throat babies want to get some UVB bulbs and give it a shot? Or better yet, give me one and I'll do it
-----
Chance Duncan
Science Teacher, Herp Enthusiast, and Reptilian Conservation Proponent

Maybe the wild ones just have a bad sunburn!!!! Lol

>>Terry, I certainly respect but do not fully agree with your conclusions. Are you inferring that a diet of snakes is responsible for the vibrant red one tends to see in wild snakes?
>>
>>If so, maybe we can (and I assure you folks are working on it) find the nutritional components responsible. Certainly dietary suppplements influence the morphology of other taxa, i.e. birds and fish, lizards, etc.
>>
>>Also, some of us do feed highly diverse diets, including snakes (readily available to me as dor's in my desert home). My snakes have a wide range of colors, some redder than others. I do agree the wild ones are often more vibrant red, and I think we will figure it out. So you make two points, you state the captives are "inbred" and you infer that dietary components from an ophidian diet is missing...which is the problem or is it both?

I don't know about color but I am very confident that changing my snakes diets from mainly rodents to a mixture of rodents, chicks, fish and lots of DOR's has been greatly beneficial to their overall health.
As stated in a previous post, 2 years ago my female produced 8 eggs, but retained 5 of them. After changing the diet and giving her a year off she produced 10 good eggs this year. Coincidence? I think not.

>>
>>I don't know about color but I am very confident that changing my snakes diets from mainly rodents to a mixture of rodents, chicks, fish and lots of DOR's has been greatly beneficial to their overall health.
>>As stated in a previous post, 2 years ago my female produced 8 eggs, but retained 5 of them. After changing the diet and giving her a year off she produced 10 good eggs this year. Coincidence? I think not.

Not surprising to me, but I'm very happy to see you post this. I used to participate in forums in order to share information on what I fed my indigo, but I stopped because of all the (unfounded) criticism and snide remarks from some "experts." I always believed that feeding an indigo like a boid (ie, all rodents) might be easiest and most convenient for the owner (which is understandable,) but not the healthiest for the snake. Given wild indigos eat mainly low fat, high protein and high calcium diets (ie, snakes, frogs, etc), farm raised rodents (ie, high fat, lower protein, and lower calcium) are not the best wrt the snake's health. Just seems like common sense, analogous to feeding a human child fresh fruit, veggies and broiled chicken rather than a Big Mac every day.

Regarding color, for what it's worth I fed my indigo mostly anoles (green anoles and larger Puerto Rican crested anoles,) some fish and a very occasional mouse for probably the first two years of its life. If anything, the small amount of red on his chin/throat faded. Not sure that really means much, but thought I'd mention it. Right now my snake is about 4 years old, and I have him on quail and rabbit pinkies. I wish I could get some feeder snakes, but it's hard to find DOR's where I live.

Thanks,
Ed

Have you considered breeding high-yield snakes like rat snakes to develop a source of feeder snakes?

>>Have you considered breeding high-yield snakes like rat snakes to develop a source of feeder snakes?

Good suggestion, but that's just not a feasible option for me right now.

Thanks,
Ed