Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns? Information about this subject on line is pretty general. I should point out that I have neither species, nor do I have any intention of getting and breeding them. My interest regarding this subject is academic, so any moral or ethical objections raised will be academic as well. Thank you in advance for any information you might have on this subject.

Certainly not interested, but the "hybrid" forum is where you want to be.
Link

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Thank you! I didn't see one when I looked to post, but am pretty new to this site and will double checkThank you again

I'm glad you asked....and youve definitely come to the right place. everyone just got done getting ready to talk about it. most of the people in here can help you if you just ask. good luck with your experiments. .

Thank you! It won't be my experiment though My husbandry interests are in rattlers I have a friend in south america who will be attempting this if he can. He can't get another king to breed with because of regulations, so he is hoping to have a go at it with his corn snake instead. If it works, I will let you know. I posted this question in hybrids as well. But thank you. I appreciate the info and the encouragementIt's nice to get when you can.

Jeremiah finds it easier to hybridize snakes with a pair of each snake that is to be bred because of the importance of pheromones in successful hybridizing. Another well known snake breeder, Dwight Good, sums it up very well:

If my goal is to breed a cornsnake to a kingsnake, first I will introduce corn to corn and king to king. I allow both pairs to court heavily, but I prevent either male from actually breeding a female. Male courtship is typically displayed with the male rubbing his chin along the female’s back and crawling on top of her. If she flees, he will usually chase her around the cage. If she is receptive and does not flee, he will continue his courtship with twitching motions and a rippling of his belly muscles along her back. The height of his courtship will result in several tail search copulatory attempts. The male will run his tail beneath hers and with a sliding forward or rearward motion attempt to insert a hemipenis into her cloaca. Don’t allow him to actually breed at this point. Once I deduce that both members of my prospective hybrid pairing are ready, I will attempt hybridization. With the male that I wish to use still in a breeding frenzy, I remove the female of his own type that he is trying to breed, and I drape him across the intended female of another species/genera. Once the male is “in position” on top of the female, I observe his actions for a moment in order to determine if any further manipulation is in order
I save all sorts of weird factoids. LOL!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Now that seems soooooooooooo natural.......lol

You forgot the part about tapping the vents of the females you don't want gravid up................
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>Now that seems soooooooooooo natural.......lol
>>
>>You forgot the part about tapping the vents of the females you don't want gravid up................
>>-----
>>John Lassiter
>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>
>>

Taping not tapping.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

LOL, do people seriously do that? Haha that seems a bit extreme..... And awesome melanistics man, I can see why they are on such a long wait list!

Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

>>LOL, do people seriously do that? Haha that seems a bit extreme..... And awesome melanistics man, I can see why they are on such a long wait list!

Yes...ask Rainer about the taping of the vents......LOL

Thanks for the compliments but I didn't produce them....They are Shannon's Melanistics.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I don't really know which is better...."Taping or tapping", but at least you clarified. LOL!!!

>>I don't really know which is better...."Taping or tapping", but at least you clarified. LOL!!!

I guess the lucky male will be "tapping the vent".....LMAO!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yeah I suppose so, John. Never really thought of it that way though I must admit. Hahahha!

So anyway, enough about that...is my vast group of thayeri not good enough or did not meet your standards? I posted those two pics for you John and you didn't even comment....now you've given me a complex. LOL!

>>Yeah I suppose so, John. Never really thought of it that way though I must admit. Hahahha!
>>
>>So anyway, enough about that...is my vast group of thayeri not good enough or did not meet your standards? I posted those two pics for you John and you didn't even comment....now you've given me a complex. LOL!

WHERE?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Well, he won't be "laying pipe" anyway.

To tap, or not to tap, that is the question....

You forgot the part about tapping the vents of the females you don't want gravid up................
It seems to me that if one put tape on her nether parts she would lose all interest in being the tease.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

>>
>>You forgot the part about tapping the vents of the females you don't want gravid up................
>>It seems to me that if one put tape on her nether parts she would lose all interest in being the tease.

And you think that would stop a horny male?.....c'mon Bob....Where there's a will there's a way.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

n/p

Kenny

Thank you Bob! What a cool technique Wow! Glad you save it, and I will pass the info on. Thank you again.

Hi Bob,

Do you hibernate them all as a matter of course, or does it depend on the species you will be breeding?

Thanks

Oh yeah all the guys here are pretty great and will help you and answer all your questions and such. Sometimes it akes a while for them to "warm up" to "you" but thay all no a lot. Hybrids have been a really popular subject here lately and for a long time on this forum so in my experence its becoming more popular. Make sure to show us all pictures when they hatch. Better start picking out a name for them now!!! Good luck.

I thought they made a hybrid forum where I can not read this.
General Topics- in between Herps and Kids and Steve Irwin Memorial forums.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

Yeah, I thought I accidentally clicked on the "hybrid discussion" forum too when I saw Pyro's step by step instructions on how to breed corns to kings.

WTF???

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I agree take this crap to the hybrid forum where it belongs......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yeah, or that Mesopathetic site. (I dont like Hybrids is you didnt catch on to that.) This is like the third time today. Shouldn't they be relocated to the proper forum. It would seem they wouldn't want their animals around all the cheap worthless Natural forums. It may lower the value guys and KS even moved the Hybrid stuff up nice and high where they can be seen easier. So after all the complaining USE IT.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

WHAT-EV!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And don't worry I won't be back eitherunless things change around here!!!

Don't mind Doug and a couple others. There is only a handful here that oppose hybrids and it does not reflect what the main stream of herpers think.

The ones most fervant against something usually have the biggest agenda. That is also why we have such a screwed up country and laws.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

Its not about opposing anything. Not liking them is my choice. Im not trying to tell you what to do or like. There is a proper place to talk about those things you guys make and this is not the forum. What I dont understand is that you post it here knowing that. When you could just put it in its place and there would be no disagreements. Maybe its to simple but if you stuck to the area where people cared about those things you wouldn't have to defend your colubrid creations.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

Kingsnakes are kingsnakes. If anything these posts can help those who don't care for hybrids to make their selections carefully before purchasing an animal. So it helps to undertsnd what hybrids look like. All i hear is how a hybrid will pullote the pool of a king or milk and then YOU won't know. Well, maybe it is time you all know the difference between what a hybrid (or suspect hybrid0 looks like. Then you can't complain so much about the evils of your polluted snakes. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

>>Don't mind Doug and a couple others. There is only a handful here that oppose hybrids and it does not reflect what the main stream of herpers think.

I got just the opposite impression from the recent threads. Regardless, I think it's misleading to tell readers who might have just popped in what you'd like to believe, when we don't have data to draw that conclusion. Maybe because you like hybrids you tend to associate with others who do, too, and that makes it seem like the majority think the way you do. The same will be true with those who oppose hybrids. In the absence of some better research, how about if neither side tries to proclaim themselves "in the mainstream"? That may make some hybrid breeders feel better about themselves, but if they genuinely have no doubts about what they do, they don't need a crowd for reassurance. Besides, what really matters is the quality of the arguments pro and con, not the quantity.
>>
>>The ones most fervant against something usually have the biggest agenda. That is also why we have such a screwed up country and laws.

Why take cheap shots at Tea Party people, on a herp forum? They may be so fervent for any number of reasons. Why blame them for the country's problems? And while I'm ranting, I get sorta tired of people who call our country screwed up. It's not perfect, but we have a hell of a lot to be proud of about America.

terry

Damn right!!!
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

Why should people keep their hybrid discussions on the hybrid forum?

See if this analogy makes any sense: There are lots of people in the US who have tremendous appreciation for CLASSIC CARS. They go to great lengths to restore them, to sustain them. They pay premium prices to replace a worn part with an authentic matching part. Because they value the cars' authenticity, they care whether a car's engine number matches the original. They'd only repaint their car, if necessary, with its original color. And so on.

There are also many people who customize cars. They put a DeSoto grille on a Ford, or paint flames on a Model A, or put spinner wheels on a '40s Studebaker. They chop and channel their cars and roll and pleat an interior that never came that way from the factory. They put 21st-century five speed trannies in cars that came with hydromatics, and do bodywork to replace single headlights with quads.

To the customizing set, these wildly modified cars look great. To classic car buffs, they're cartoons, and each one means one fewer authentic car to be appreciated for the way it looked and ran when it was original, one less opportunity to preserve that originality.

Customizers share their enthusiasm in special-interest custom car venues, not in classic car magazines, on classic car forums or at classic car shows. Both groups love cars, but in very different ways, with very different value systems.

So where do color morphs ("mutations", "phenotypes" fit into this scenario?

I'd argue any of the common recessive traits are the equivalent of small-production-run car models: Automakers do sometimes produce only a handful of (numbered) cars with certain engine/transmission combinations, or colors, or other limited-edition specifications. Classic car owners tend to prize these because they're rare, and because they represent something authentic but uncommon.

Thats a good point. Then why not post Ball Python pics and questions in here too. How about Turtles? The whole point is there is a section for just about every species of reptiles on these great forums. The Kingsnake forum is for just that. The people on here are good people that post interesting topics. The point about not reading it is the problem. Post it where it belongs so the people that want to read about them know where to find them. I hate haveing to skim through a bunch of off topic stuff when I want to see Kingsnakes or whatever forum I am in. Whats so hard about posting it in the hybrid section. Thats what they are post them there. Dont be ashamed of what you like. Its alawys a fight that has a simple fix. Now that was me leaving me feelings on the hybrid thing out and just talking sense. Try it out.
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Gerard
www.livebaitclip.com

All fabulous points Terry, and very well stated indeed!

Additionally, cars cannot multiply and make many folds more junk baby cars that unknowingly(or knowingly)infiltrate and find their way into captive collections throughout the country(and world)stripping any authenticity away from the other classic cars out there that are left...

Your right, hybrids and crosses are like when someone "thinks" they are actually acquiring a matching numbers '69 Roadrunner with a 426 hemi, and later find out it is actually a bogus look-alike replica that was purposely made to look similar to a genuine one, and but originated from a Satellite with a 318 motor..

The hybridizer/crosser's argument would then be......"DUDE!, it still looks shiny, has killer whacky paint, and burns rubber!, so what's not to like!!"

HAHAA!!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Over the years that I have been on this forum, this is what I've seen.....people oppose things vehemently. Then after they take 2-3 years to process it,..is adopted as gospel. LOLOLOLOL! to funny!!

So if you purchase a classic Shelby Cobra and then later finding out it is a replica that makes the person who built the replica their fault?

The problem is you guys can't and to stubborn to learn the difference between a polished dungball and a classic replica car.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

And what I have seen over the many years is that people like YOU and many others will always look for little nooks and crannies of sentences to take and twist around to "pseudo-justify" your hybrid/crossing AGENDA!

Your little car analogy had NOTHING to do with the actual point whatsoever. Like I said many times before, if it needs constant explaining, it is just plain useless..LOL!

bye!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Your little car analogy had NOTHING to do with the actual point whatsoever.

You guys brought up the car analogy. See now how ridiculous you all are.lol!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

TO FUNNY
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

" And what I have seen over the many years is that people like YOU and many others will always look for little nooks and crannies of sentences to take and twist around to "pseudo-justify" your hybrid/crossing AGENDA!

Your little car analogy had NOTHING to do with the actual point whatsoever. Like I said many times before, if it needs constant explaining, it is just plain useless..LOL! "

Exactly. It is the same type of behavior that drug addicts and those involved in deep sexual perverted behavior dwell on. Justification. No matter how much is said and discussed, those who are into destroying what is natural and performing biological perversion, always have some twisted way to try to justify what they do. Facts are facts, and behavior is noted. They never have anything concrete to add. Whatever is said is always based upon these things:

So-called popularity justifying destroying what is natural.
What makes them feel good.
An inner need to keep repeating over and over the same thing, to make their insecurity show by doing so. That is what you are speaking about in regards to the constant explaining.
The lies spewed to make their position seem strong.

The true professionals in our hobby know right and wrong.

Nothing else can be said. Case closed. NEXT!
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Genesis 1:1

"billygoat" ya make NO SENSE SON! biological perversion! WTF try and grasp this lil fact billy... ALL CAPTIVE PAIRINGS ARE UN-NATURAL wether they are same type or not so take your perversion arguement/statement somewhere else aint NOBODY here on the HYBRID forum or herptoculture cares to here it, it simply doesnt apply.
and your "NEXT" comment... HAH how weak, pathetic and small, i mean really like you are the end all, what a joke.
passion is a good thing division is not i think youve made it clear your all about division.
sad.

,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

wow first finches now cars!?!?! and morphs are like limited editions! what about apples and oranges? or cows?
ahhhahahahahahahaaa thanks terry it all makes so much sense now, the voice of reason.
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Maybe when you are like 70 or 80 years old, you will start making just the tiniest bit of sense in your posts.

.........extremely doubtful though, because I have never seen any in them in all the years I have ever read any.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

OHHH your words are SO painful doug and yet they mean SO LITTLE. why you GOTTA jump in every SINGLE post i make to terry dunham? WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
WHY? WHEN I DIRECT A POST TO TERRY DUNHAM YOU ALWAYS JUMP IN IT!
WHY?

I THINK EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR OBVIOUS MAN LOVE but its quite disturbing please stay out of my posts unless they are a general post or are directed at you, thanks for your help in this matter.

,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

"WHY? WHEN I DIRECT A POST TO TERRY DUNHAM YOU ALWAYS JUMP IN IT!"

Because you only make your stupid, meaningless, disruptive comments to him, and anyone else on the forums for the sole purpose of creating insulting conflicts for your very lonely personal amusement. It's as simple as that Davis.

You, me, and EVERYONE else on the kingsnake and milksnake forums knows this is an absolute fact!. It actually seems to be your sole purpose in life.

Now tell me this isn't so.................

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

And all along I thought his sole purpose was enlightenment through a new sect of Buddhism.....*note to self: I was wrong about Davis all along*
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Jerry Kruse

UPDATED!
www.zonatas.com

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Can't have "enlightenment" when all the lights are off!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

"I LOVE HERPS BUT I ABSOLUTELY HATE HERPERS"

someone once said this to me so many years ago when i first entered the hobby, thought the statement was rediculous until i had been around the hobby for a while, now it makes perfect sense, the behavoir and agressiveness displayed by many purists towards hybridizers are just rediculous, I don't tell other people what they can and can't do with their collections and expect others not to feel they have any right to determine what i can or can't do with MY animals so in other words to all you who would like to tell me what i should or shouldn't do with MY collection of animals i'd like to politely ASK you to PISS OFF and invite you to worry about what you do with your breeding projects and i'll worry about mine thanks,

Are u really just know responding to a thread from May? Hahahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Where have you been for the last two months; lost in the woods and you just found your way back? Hahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!

Seriously though, I would never tell you or anyone else what to do or what not to do with their snakes or gerbils. The choice is yours!

Take care! And by the way, its July 22, 2011.....and a date that everyone should celebrate. There are peace talks going on right now between Jorge and Rainer. You'll have to scroll up about 1000 posts though to see it.

Maybe there is hope for Israel and Palestine after all.

I had no idea that such controversy would ensue by my not seeing the hybrid section, and posting in king section first!!!! You guys are hilarious But thanks for all the info, this is seems like a really cool forum.

And an admirable attempt as well. Rather a shame the points you were trying to make were so completely and quickly lost.

If I had the time I'd hunt up one of those animated emoticons incessantly beating it's head against a wall just for you.

Gerry

The fact is Terry the hybrids ARE more mainstream.

Go to a show with 500 nice looking F2 gen hybrids on a table and they are sold out in hours. Same thing with the internet.

The sell...period. That makes them more mainstream. How do i know? because i did it for several years. That is my professional opinion v.s. your unprofessional opinion.

So what I said was THIS forum with a handful of people obviously don't make up the majority. The majority purchase hybrids on an impluse buy. They are more popular than the supply meets the demand.

Also, before someone else mentions it.. i am not talking about "any" hybrid. Just the nice looking well thought out ones. Not a splendida bred to a Cali king.

Facts are facts and hybrids sell faster , better and to more different people than any niche snake (maybe besides Ball pythons).

So should someone listen to what you few guys have to say or what the mainstream herpetoculture has to say? The people on this forum have voted...that is, the few that post here. But votes at a show and clearing a table of hybrids year after year speaks more about this subject than anything else.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

i think you are on the right track blue rosy. What we should do is tap into the popularity of the reality tv show market and make one called snake wars. Then we could make several expos/shows that are separated into two sections to chronical the fight for sales between the two sides. One for hybrids, the other for "pure" specimens. One side would go for it without blinking, we might have a tough time getting the other side to play though. Shane
Jump in here doug, I know you've been waiting for another opportunity to voice you opinion. Im glad to give you another one because im not sure im clear on what it is yet

Jump in here doug, I know you've been waiting for another opportunity to voice you opinion. Im glad to give you another one because im not sure im clear on what it is yet

I'm not sure what DMONG'S opinion is either.
As Randy Jackson would say on American idol..

Doug is in it TO WIN IT!
....doesn't matter what the race is.

As long as he uses words like "you need to look at the big picture". LOL! That is exactly WHY i think he is messing with us . He can't be serious .HA HA HA!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

Oh yeah I love that one too but this is by far my most favorite. Its pretty great there a forum for all situations and intrests and such. It makes sense this is the best becasue afterall it is kingsnake.com!!,

>>Oh yeah I love that one too but this is by far my most favorite. Its pretty great there a forum for all situations and intrests and such. It makes sense this is the best becasue afterall it is kingsnake.com!!,

Dude....are you for real?
Every time I read your post all I can think of is "Spirit Fingers!".......LMAO!!!!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

What's that. I never heard of him or that.

>>What's that. I never heard of him or that.

LOL.....Nevermind.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I am now thinking you are Jeff Schofield in disguising trying to be a new forum newbie.

It ain't addin' up.......

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

>>I am now thinking you are Jeff Schofield in disguising trying to be a new forum newbie.
>>
>> It ain't addin' up.......

Yep....Jeff makes more sense with the hybrid ploy......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I don't post here much... (the aggression level on this forum has been TOO high in recent years). But i had to ask a logical question: With your obvious distaste for the Hybrid discussion, Why'd you (and others) read the post? All the time wasted here arguing over foolishness could've been spent formulating a post of your interest... There are SO many topics that can be discussed here. Distaste, aggression, sarcastic insults, etc... won't make things "go away."

~ZF

Zenny that female flame has like a jaco-lantern pattern on her head lol!

Jeremy Thompson
Captive Born Investments Inc.

Zenny that female flame has like a jaco-lantern pattern on her head lol!

Okay Zenny (cough) , I mean Jeremy. Good eye! LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

lol.. I never noticed!

Lav-Flame female is slugginh out... i get 1-2 every other day but i'll be pairing her to the Sulpur (het lav) for her 2nd clutch... should be an interesting season.

~Z

No but it used to be. This whole thread was moved over to the hybrid forum.

Thanks I think I know some of you from face book.....hmmmm

>>Did I read that correctly?

Why yes you did........Why you ask?.......LMAO!!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

It's not perfect, but we have a hell of a lot to be proud of about America.

The best thing I heard all day! Thanks Terry

Yeah, I am sure those guys who persished in WW-II are real pleased for they gave their lives for. NOT!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("

I thinbk I know whre you already stand..

If you want to know what I think is that those "partiots" who died for this country. Died for a completly different reason/country. A different set of marality and ideals. Where Gods natural order where in a better place.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Does anyone interested in hybrids have, or know where I can get, detailed information on cross breeding kings with corns?

(l___l)
(='.'=)
("_("