Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Cape Coral Nile Monitor population is having a definite impact on the feral cat population. Additionally, they are a threat to the burrowing owl and many other species (including the alligators) in the area, according to what I read in the St. Pete Times on Friday (http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/26/Floridian/Enter_the_dragons.shtml).

Brian is right; the family cat’s demise will cause a furor. We see this happening here in Pinellas County right now as a result of a growing coyote population. My cat is not at issue; he lives indoors. Likewise, my geriatric dog is not left outside unattended. So, if I and mine are not at risk, why should I care?

Anyone who does not think that this will negatively impact the reptile hobby in Florida (and become a precedent for action in other states) has his or her head in the sand. It will eventually be a legislated issue, if we do not police ourselves.

These feral monitors are much less popular than their feline counterparts. John Q. Public is, generally speaking, not a reptile fancier. He'd infinitely prefer to see a feral Fluffy stalking the birds in his backyard and leaving his little presents in the flowerbeds than a five-foot Nile monitor. The monitor is going to eat Fluffy and Fido, the birds and their eggs, after which he will scarf down the collector-quality koi out of the water feature on which John Q. spent a small fortune to add to his landscape. Not being able to let John Q. Junior roam the yard unattended and/or unarmed after the neighborhood dinosaur threatens him (regardless of what Junior did or did not do to provoke it) is an imposition that John Q. Senior is simply not going to tolerate.

We as hobbyists have got to exert positive peer pressure upon each other to not purchase animals that we cannot commit to providing for appropriately.

Those of us who breed animals must realize our responsibility to place those lives that we create in responsible homes. I wonder if animals are being dumped, is that not an indicator that more animals are being bred than can be absorbed into homes? I personally would rather see an animal that I produced euthanized or used as a feeder before seeing it neglected, abused or abandoned.

In Florida, we have 47 exotic species of reptile, and four amphibians, not to mention the mammals, birds, and arthropods, fish and plants that don't belong here. I don't begrudge the lives of the exotics except as they exert pressure on the natives, like the Eastern Indigo snake, which is already threatened.

BTW, the Florida FWC website below is a little out of date; we now know that the Nile Monitor is reproducing by the 145 recorded sitings of animals of various stages of maturity since the first recorded in 1990.

BFN

Florida's Exotic Wildlife

This post was meant to be a respons in the Nile Monitor thread below.

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Very well written-I commend you. (And I'm not saying so because you said I was right). Savannah's are also loose down here. I know of a reptile dealer who has thrown unwanted thin Savannah Monitors in a trash dumpster. Some have escaped, some have died in there, and some have been rescued and medicated. Many Snow bird people with their monitors and Iguanas purposely bring them to florida and release them in the florida sunshine thinking their doing 'the right thing'. and it's not just lizards= a 18' foot retic. was recently seen downing a screaming raccoon. The Python was not rescued because no one there wanted to tackle a reptile that big and aggressive. Yes, it's a serious and growing problem. I just had a gentleman bring in a 4' female iquana tonight in good health but one could quickly see she had a hard life. Most of her dorsal spines were removed and she had distorted toes indicative of a calcium and Vitamin-D deficiency in her youth. and so it goes....

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC

It is difficult if not impossible to keep this in check.
We can't even get people to spay and neuter their cats or keep them indoors where they are safer and healthier and not destroying native wildlife.

How can we get people to not dump their reptiles? You can try outreach but that only goes so far. I am sure some people even think that they are doing the animals a service by setting them free. People just don't think (right from the moment that they buy the animal on impulse). Then they want a quick fix to get rid of the monstorous reptile and so they set it free.
Even here on Long Island where we have cold winters (Brian you will remember the thread below about sulcata being released here.)

Breeders and pet retailers need to inform people ahead of time what they can expect down the road with these creatures and not just take the money and run. Ask questions about what kind of set up they have for them do they understand what they eat and how large they grow or aggressive they can get.

Of course some jerks will buy them whether they can care for the or not just cuz they're "cool man!!"

It is very frustrating. The other problem is that folks do not connect with these animals as much as kitty or Fido. So they treat them like even bigger disposable items (dogs and cats get that too but for some reason people feel they are more deserving of compassion than a herp, bird or fish or invert.)

I am not sure what will turn the tides on this stuff. Frankly - I am a cat lover (have two of my own who live indoors always) but I only feel anger at the people who let their cats run and get eaten by these creatures or coyotes and not the animals doing the eating and as for the feral cats these feral lizards are doing a service by eating them. Still the damage to native animals is a real concern.

You can never count on people to take care of something precious. It's human nature. People even abuse their own children. As long as it's legal to have pets, pets are going to be neglected and dumped. Sometimes I consider officially changing membership to a different species...
-----
Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

Feral is a domestic animal that is living in a wild state. An example would be the goats of the Galapagos or "wild" board of the southeastern US. The ancestors of these animals were domestic species as are the ones living in the wild today. Feral animals just don't have people caring for them.

Nile monitors have never been domesticated and are therefore introduced wildlife in the Sunshine State.

BUT...the important point is what this will mean to herp keeping. I think it is eventually doomed. As someone stated you can't make someone take care of something and it is human nature not to...look at our environment!

What evidence has been presented of monitors feeding on cats? Not that I care about the cats. Domestic and feral cats are a major wildlife problem. If you let them outside...I don't care what happens...because you obviously don't.

Brian

"BUT...the important point is what this will mean to herp keeping. I think it is eventually doomed. As someone stated you can't make someone take care of something and it is human nature not to...look at our environment! "

I fear you are right.

"What evidence has been presented of monitors feeding on cats? Not that I care about the cats. Domestic and feral cats are a major wildlife problem. If you let them outside...I don't care what happens...because you obviously don't."

I agree that feral cats have a great impact on wildlife; they don't belong "in the wild" any more than any other introduced species anywhere. As a species that doesn't belong, they might as well be a food source for something else; at least then their lives are not wasted. And I am a cat owner as I noted before.

But the public at large considers cats and dogs "normal" pets. And a lot of the general public looks at reptile keepers as rather less than normal. No matter how I examine this issue, we, the reptile keepers, end up losing in the long run. Fluffy will always trump Scaly in the public's affections.

Amazing how much lenience people give to fur. Watched a documentary on the true damage that cats do to ecosystems and wildlife, whether they be feral or simply allowed to have the night out so to speak.
They showed one cat that would kill koi-drag them right out of pond bigger than the cat was, along with full grown rabbits wild and domestic, including the large breeds of rabbits, millions of birds-hunted at night while roosting, and of course anything that moved form the very small to a good chuck larger than the cat, lets say 200% bobymass of cat to be conservative.

I know this doesn't help with retarded actions of former reptile keepers, and the problem of introduced reptiles to the wild is truly a major problem. Just wish cat keepers got slammed for irreponsible cat keeping actins too, even thoug it may be a small fraction of the cat keepers.

my 2 cents
matt

Very True Matt and I agree with Brian's point too (and I am a cat owner)--
If your cat is let out to roam than whatever happens to it happens to it. Sad part is it is the keepers fault not the cat.

Why are there so many strick dog laws (leash laws, licenses) I even know first hand of someone who got sued because their dog ran loose got hit (and killed) by a car and the person who owned the car sued the dog owner for damages (and won).

Yet cats go around killing our koi, herps that are in enclosures in our yards and other pets that we may keep outside and nothing is done about it.

Just makes me mad!!

Matt,

I would love toknow the name of this video as I wouldloveto use it in one of my classes.

Thank you,

Brian

there would be a greater effort in eliminating it.