Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have three females and one male mice. One had a litter of 11 and there eyes just opened. They are in there own little container. Meanwhile another one got pregnant and is bulging. Would it be ok to put the pregnant one in with the other mother and children and let her give birth in that same container. Or do I need to keep them separated? If so I will need to get a third container to get the expecting mother away from the male. Hope that made sense. Any thought?
Thanks
DAVY

Well there are many different opinions when it comes to this. I have been breeding for about 4 months and have tried many different senarios. Every mouse is different. Long haired mice are very protective and I wouldn't keep them with any other mouse during pregnancy or birth unless it was within a day or two of births. Males can stay with females, Im not saying all of them can but I just had two males and one female together and the male was there for the birth and had no problem. The problem you may have other than canniblalism is that all babies will be thrown in a pile and the younger ones tend to get pushed to the bottom while the older ones hog all the milk. So unless they are only a couple days apart separate them. you can add the male back a few days later he will help the mother raise them. The mice will do better this way anyways.

My suggestion to you is that if you have more than four snakes, just go buy more containers and get more families started right away. I have spent months trying to catch up to my 8 snake collection. I finally said enough and bought three new set ups with 3-1 ratios and it resulted in about 60 babies. I thought that was enough and I was wrong so I actually bought one more 3-1 family last night.

With live mice I learned that it takes longer than you think to raise them from babys to breeders, you will lose babys, mothers, and it seems like you never have enough.

That was two females and one male together...Typo.
The only problem I have had with cannibalism is not with the males but with the females. All I can tell you is keep in mind the cost vs benefit ratio when determining how you house them during pregnancy and what your long term goals are.

Sorry, I should have took the time to explain my situation better. Thanks for all the info, it's been a big help. I am new at raising snakes and even newer at raising mice.

I have only two cal king snakes. One is feeding on large pinkies and the other is on medium fusses. I have been keeping all four mice in the same container (3 girls 1 guy)until one would get with child. Then I would put it into another container and keep it there until the babies would get to the appropriate size, then freeze them and then put the mom back with the others.

This is the first time two females were pregnant so close together. The one litter is not ready to freeze yet, while the other is about to drop her load. I did not know you could put the male back with the mother so soon. I will probable run into this more often now because I am having to let the babies get bigger before there departure. I put the expecting mother in with the mom and babies and watch them for a while. The babies where trying to suck on the expecting mother. I didn't know it that was ok or not.

I would like to get more mice and probable will have to one day. But I really need a better way to keep them and a better system. I have just the small plastic container with the mesh top that holds the water bottle w/ a flip open top in the middle, that you can get at pet dept.

What kind of containers do you keep them in and how do you keep food in there container?

I actually work at a university that have mice and use the good containers with the metal top that holds the food and water. If I could get my hands on some of those that would be wonderful. Anyway, thanks again for the info.

I will post a discussion with pics this weekend... I have been wanting to show this off to everyone who is a hobby breeder... You know those of us who need to keep it neat and clean for our familys sake. I would encourage you to feed your snakes the live mice. They will be happier and so will you. It sounds like you have some juveniles maybe even younger. Just understand that a kingsnake that age should be getting 3 to four mice a week. 2 at a time then 3 to 4 days later, 1 to 2 more! They grow fast just keep an eye to make sure they are passing it through as fast as you are feeding them. As long as they are staying slender when they are not full with a mouse you can feed them as much as they will take.

I have been feeding them every 4 day like clock work. And its always a mice that takes a while to get down and leave a pretty good budge. Someone else told me to feed them more and I did two different time and both times both of them regurgitated. So I went back to a nice size meal every 4 days.
Easier to keep up with and not have to clean up regurgitated mess.

DAVY

Well you have to do what works for you. Two smaller meals digest faster than one big one. That is what I do for juveniles. When I give them bigger ones I wait 5 days minimum. As for my set ups they are steralite 32 qt containers about 6 inches high. There is a locking one that is a little bigger that is nice. You will have to clean them more often if you just drill holes though. Due to Toxins. It works well and keeps the smells down. Clean every 2-3 days Aspen Bedding (Fresh) mount water bottle on side or top. I stack mine. Look for pics this weekend.

Thanks for all the good advice. Looking forward to the pictures.

I put the expecting mother in with the mom and babies and watch them for a while. The babies where trying to suck on the expecting mother. I didn't know it that was ok or not.

When the baby mice suck on an expectant mother, they spoil her nipples, so that when she has her own litter, her babies will be unable to nurse and will starve.

Read the linked article, even though it is in reference to rats rather than mice.
Communal Nesting

I don't usually put mice back in with nursing females once I have separated them, until the babies are removed. They can be very protective.

You can leave the male with the female all the time if you want. She will come into heat right after giving birth.

It is a little stressful on her, but not so bad if you are removing the babies before they are weaned anyway.

You can leave females together when they have their babies. Usually if they have been raised together they will be fine, but if they weren't raised together there seems to be more risk of cannibalism.

Like another poster said, if you have litters of different sizes together, the big ones will get most of the milk.
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.2 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
0.0.10 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
1.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 2000 and something

Colossians 3:17

Thanks guys for all the great information.

Short answer, you'll be fine. I never worry, occasionally you'll have problems. I do this at home and have had zero issues. I just got done with four litters all within a week or so, all four mothers were nursing young....despite if it was theirs or another mothers (all the young kind of got split up). All of the young grew and were health when I culled them. I think I lost one young (out of ~40), but that could have been due to a number of issues.