Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, here we go, keep in mind that I am new at raising mice. Ignorance is my defense.

I have been reading on this forum and found out that people gas there mice with co2 before they freeze them.
HOW? I don't know. Why? I don't know. I have just started breeding and have just had two litters of mice in my experience.

When they got to the appropriate size I would pick them up and put them in a zip lock bag and put them in the freezer. I did feel bad that they had to die to feed my snakes but I did not feel bad about how they were dying. Never crossed my mind. Until now.... but not sure why....

I guess I'm asking several questions HOW and WHY with the co2, and also I'm looking for a "YES" when I ask if anyone just throws them in the freezer like i did?? Just so I don't feel so bad.

Story time: When I was little my mom put a little kitten on a stump and cut it's head off with an axe, because it had a Wolf in it's neck. NOW... Why did she do that when she could have just put it in a hole and covered it up? It was going to die either way. Not sure. I am sure that she felt bad that it had to die and maybe she thought it needed a quick death. End of story. Just for your info I found out later that you can get a wolf out of a cats neck and save the cat.

I hope no one thinks I am a terrible person.

DAVY

I have been reading on this forum and found out that people gas there mice with co2 before they freeze them.
HOW?
I buy dry ice. Put some in a small bowl of water. Put that in a large tank or bucket. Add mice (not in the bowl with the dry ice). The gas, being heavier than air, fills the large container and kills the mice very quickly.

When they got to the appropriate size I would pick them up and put them in a zip lock bag and put them in the freezer.
I do the same thing up through fuzzy size. If I have just a few larger mice to kill, I just use the "forcefull contact with a hard surface" method. Kills them instantly if you do it right.

Story time: When I was little my mom put a little kitten on a stump and cut it's head off with an axe, because it had a Wolf in it's neck.
I hope no one thinks I am a terrible person.
I don't think you are a terrible person, but how can a kitten have a wolf in its neck????
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.2 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
0.0.10 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
1.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 2000 and something

Colossians 3:17

We alway just called it a wolf for short. A wolf worm (genus cuterebra) is a parasite that can infect animals ranging from farm animals to animals in the wild, even cats. It's a nasty site.

DAVY

google bott fly....is this the big bad wolf?

dig it out and add peroxide...?...

wait,...it was a cat....nevermind...
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........JY

The bot fly must come up to breath. When it comes up for air put a small glass tube, such as an eye dropper, with the large end over the hole and suck it out. The bot will wind up in the tube but wont go in your mouth because the eyedropper tube narrows down too small to let it pass. That is how I removed these things from kittens and rabbits when I lived in Michigan. A very nasty thing indeed.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

When they got to the appropriate size I would pick them up and put them in a zip lock bag and put them in the freezer. I did feel bad that they had to die to feed my snakes but I did not feel bad about how they were dying. Never crossed my mind. Until now.... but not sure why....

I guess I'm asking several questions HOW and WHY with the co2, and also I'm looking for a "YES" when I ask if anyone just throws them in the freezer like i did?? Just so I don't feel so bad.

I used to put live mice in containers and then put them in the freezer; until I got in trouble with the Humane Society and learned that it was illegal to put mice into the freezer (even if they are intended for snake food). In fact, the presence of frozen rodents in the freezer is considered positive proof that the felony crime of Animal Hoarding has occurred.

{Anytime a household has more than ten animals in total, they are guilty of the felony crime of Animal Hoarding. Just a single mouse litter can put a household over the maximum legal limit. Even if all of the animals are well cared for, just the fact of having more than ten animals counts is a felony; for which, the penalty is unreasonably severe!}

Story time: When I was little my mom put a little kitten on a stump and cut it's head off with an axe, because it had a Wolf in it's neck. NOW... Why did she do that when she could have just put it in a hole and covered it up? It was going to die either way. Not sure. I am sure that she felt bad that it had to die and maybe she thought it needed a quick death. End of story. Just for your info I found out later that you can get a wolf out of a cats neck and save the cat.

"you can get a wolf out of a cats neck"
Please define wolf in this usage.

"{Anytime a household has more than ten animals in total, they are guilty of the felony crime of Animal Hoarding. Just a single mouse litter can put a household over the maximum legal limit. Even if all of the animals are well cared for, just the fact of having more than ten animals counts is a felony; for which, the penalty is unreasonably severe!} "

Snakelakey,

You should clarify what State you are in as these types of laws are different between states, and sometimes even vary from county to county or even municipality. That being said I find it doubtful that the extreme you stated exists anywhere....

I will check into that hoarding thing. I can name off a lot of folks that have tons of cats, dogs, squires, birds, even skunks living in the same house. Sounds like someone is just picking on the snake people. could be wrong. just my opinion.

DAVY

In the state of Oregon; you can buy frozen rodents; you can feed f/t rodents; you just can NOT store frozen rodents in the freezer, because that is proof of animal hoarding which is a felony with ridiculously stiff penalties. Rodents (perceived as cute and cuddly) seemingly have more rights than snakes (falsely perceived as dangerous). I do NOT agree with that regulation, but must abide by the crazy rules.

I got in trouble with the Humane Society in the Spring of 2008 (as some long time readers of this forum might remember), for having too many rats (about 100; all well fed and watered; all caged, though I will concede overcrowded). I was threatened with being charged with animal hoarding. Though, thankfully, that never actually happened. The upshot was that (against my will) my rats were executed and thrown in the trash; so that I didn't have anything to feed my extremely finicky Great Basin Gopher snake at the beginning of the very short time of year that my snake will eat. I was, also, told that I could NOT have ANY rodents in my freezer. Research on the internet then showed me that was because having rodents in the freezer is taken as positive proof that the felony crime of animal hoarding has occured.

I now have too many mice (more than the maximum of 10 animals total allowed per household, though still much fewer than the number of rats that I previously had), all because my snake won't eat, and it is illegal to freeze the excess.

Scroll down to the threads titled "Hoarders", posted on 12 Jan 2011; and "How to store frozen rats", posted on 10 Mar 2011.
Read the last right-hand-side paragraph here.

Holy Crap..... Why has everything got to be so difficult. Now I have to research (Animal Hoarding). I Don't want to guilty of a felony. I have only two snakes. How do most of you guys do it that have racks of snakes and mice? Y'all don't have to answer that cause it sounds like I'm opening a can of worms.

DAVY

Thanks for explaining your usage of the term "wolf."

How do most of you guys do it that have racks of snakes and mice?

Since the Spring of 2008, I also have been wondering how everyone with racks of snakes and rodents avoids being charged with Animal Hoarding. Do you buy the very expensive license to become an animal shelter, or what?

So, how DO rack set-up users avoid being charged with being Animal Hoarders?
See last paragraph on right.

I am going to post that exact question on the kingsnake form to get more exposure.

Because not all states have stupid laws. How hard is it to understand, I've already explained that the laws are different not only from state to state but from county to county and municipality to municipality. Just because you live in a police state doesn't mean the rest of us do. Here's a hint, vote republican next time...

I'd actually like to see a citation from an actual statute, not some animal rights page with an agenda.

I've read your threads and at no time do you provide documentation of the law. You only cite an animal rights webpage. If you want to continue living in fear without being clear on the facts that's up to you. But this issue really seems to concern you. I would do my homework and try to find an actual statutory reference to this "law".

Here you go, happy reading, isn't one word about hoarding in there.
oregon animal law statues

Many animal welfare laws exempt rats and mice.

Also, Animal Hoarding is about more than just numbers- its about the conditions the animals are kept in. Are they belly deep in crap? are they half-hairless from mite infestation? are there dead animals decomposing next to the food dish? Is there even food or water available?

Presumably, you want your snakes to be healthy, so whether you actually care about the rats/mice for their own sakes or not, you are probably at least keeping the compartments clean, removing sick/dead animals, regularly feeding them and proving clean water at all times, etc.

“Many animal welfare laws exempt rats and mice. ”

Rats and mice are not exempt in Oregon.

“Also, Animal Hoarding is about more than just numbers- its about the conditions the animals are kept in. ”

In Oregon it is more about numbers, than the conditions the animals are kept in. A person can have perfectly healthy, well fed, clean animals; but if a household has more than 10 animals total, they are guilty of Animal Hoarding.

In Oregon all Animal Hoarding is a felony, and not just a misdemeanor.

“Presumably, you want your snakes to be healthy, ”

Yes, I do want both of my snakes to be healthy, that is part of what was particularly upsetting when my rats were executed. I was then left with nothing to feed my extremely finicky gopher snake at the start of the few months of the year when he will eat.

“so whether you actually care about the rats/mice for their own sakes or not, ”

I do care about my rats/mice. The breeders are semi-pets; some of the rats even had names, I miss them. The rats were healthy, though a bit overcrowded. I started with just 1 pair of rats (Sam and Zoe), but then the rats multiplied when my snake would not eat.

I currently have 5 (recently purchased) mice in a ten gallon tank. I have named the 3 that I want for breeders. The other 2 mice are to be fed to the gopher snake, when he decides to eat.

I used to work at an animal care facility and I've culled rodents by freezing them (home) and by CO2 (work)...and by swiftly popping them against a hard surface (ie, table). And I will say without a doubt popping them over a table is much more humane, perhaps not as accepted but it is more humane; it is instant death.

My experience with CO2 was that this is a terrible and inhumane way to kill rodents; they visibly suffocate. Funny thing was the CO2 system was installed to be a humane alternative...we only ended up using it for very large rats or times when we were calling 100 animals at a time. I will say you once you work with CO2 enough you can kill pretty quick.

Just freezing them is a little inhumane, and lazy. It takes little extra time to pre-kill your rodents before freezing. Sometimes you can ruin a batch by freezing live, because for a period they still radiant body heat, which if packed in a zip lock bag too tightly can cause them to start rotting pretty quickly and you'll end up with a solid bag of frozen mice that smell to hell when thawed out.

Best method, pre-kill by popping them or CO2 (in some cases) and then freeze them.