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compared to other snake species these snakes seem to be aggressive but have a lack of jaw power and cant really cause that much damage

i do not understand why they were created this way this puts them at a serious disadvantage when attacking prey they have only a mouth to swallow it down and no construction ability to hold the prey?

indigo snakes also do not constrict but they have beastly dog like jaws that crunch the prey in half

I don't understand this question at all. For starters, drys do not "crunch the prey in half." They're an oversized racer, which overpower the prey. They usually hold it down with part of their body, then swallow it whole, exactly like a racer.

Coachwhips have some serious jaw strength, but if you've ever seen one feed, they have a caculated attack that they use every time, always biting the prey underneath the neck, or around the same area, which ruptures the heart. Coachwhips have very large teeth compared to other colubrids of the same size. If you've ever been on the recieving end of one, it's very evident. A bite from a big coachwhip feels much different than a bite from a big coach.

Coachwhips and racers can be extremely defensive snakes, but biting isn't their first line of defense. They are streamlined speed demons, that can do a disapearing act right in front of you.

Kevin

kevin are couchwhips stronger in the jaws then races ? bigger teeth?

Indigos are not larger racers indigo can kill king snakes their bodys and jaws are strong enough to do so i have seen indigos beat their prey to death and also bite their head off or bite it in half

a king can kill a racer much larger then it is

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Indigos are racers by another name, in every way, shape, and form, they're just bigger. They kill their prey exactly the same way, and don't "beat it to death", this is an old wive's tail.

Kevin

ive seen them do it

racers fall victim to smaller king snakes while indigo kill larger king snakes

they are NOT the same snakes

indigos are more like mussurana these are true Ophiophagus that have to tools to kill other large snakes while racers dont have it

indigos have powerful jaws for their size ive seen someone get bit they are very mammal like if u dont believe me go interact with some they are nothing like a racer or a rat snake

You're completely missing what I'm saying.

I never said they were the same snake, they belong in the same general classification of snakes, drys have stronger jaws because they're a BIGGER SNAKE.

You just compared a rat snake and a racer, two snakes couldn't be more different. One is a sighthunter that kills by overpowering its prey and swallowing it alive (exactly the same as a dry), while the other is a constrictor. You figure out which.

I interact with them on a daily basis, I keep racers, cribos, and coachwhips.

Incidentally, mussuranas belong in the same general group as racers as well. They're just enormous, oversized racers, yes, with extremely strong jaws, but it's because they're a bigger, more thick bodied snake.

I have no idea where your kingsnake argument came from or what point you were trying to make with that.

I don't know how else to spell it out for you.

ok sorry i just seen that small king snakes kill big racers in the wild and was shocked that a smaller snake would be able to kill a snake much larger then itself specially a snake that also likes to eat other snakes

i guess ur right tho indigo snakes and racers both act the same just indigo have a thick girth with big jaws

but what is news to me is coach whip do not hunt the same as racers i am shocked i always thought coach whips were almost the same as racers when it came to hunting but i guess coach whips kill with a skilled bite? I have NEVER read this in any book or online though...

Yup, they definitely do attack with a skilled bite. Coachwhips are highly intelligent site hunters, they seem to plan out their attack before going in for a kill. If you think about it, it makes sense, they need to be able to kill prey fast in the wild, because without constriction, prey could easily cause some form of injury to a coachwhip. But I've seen it time and time again with my captive coachwhips, they seem to aim for the area between the neck and the shoulder blade when they attack.

I've seen captive racers do it as well, matter of fact. Indigos, coachwhips, racers, spilotes, to me, they're all more or less the same, highly evolved, intelligent sight hunters that rely on speed and intelligence to overpower and consume prey.

Incidentally, a racer will eat a kingsnake if it gets half the chance. Coachwhips will as well.

Kevin

"A bite from a big coachwhip feels much different than a bite from a big coach. "

did you mean to say from a big racer? not sure what u meant by a big couch

Well said Kev, I keep sayin indogos, coachwhips and racers are cousins and were blessed with longer teeth and stronger jaws then other snakes with venomn or the abillity to constrict. The long sharp teeth, jaw strength and sheer aggressivness are their venomn. also I have witnessed a 40 inch, one year old eastern coachwhip bite a mouse mid body and the mouses eyes pop out of its skull. and as for kings vs racers, one is the fastest the other very slow, and though kings like to eat ratsnakes they meet them under rock piles and in holes in the ground, racers are surface snakes and book when approached by anything. BTW I've been a commerical collector of snakes in central fla for 25 years, seen over 50 indigos in the wild and like Kev been sucsessful breeding and rearing near a hundred baby easterns since 2005. dont believe everything you read in a book, just ask a pro, right here...JB

what type of snake is that in the pic?

would you agree that a coachwhips are more powerful with bigger teeth and stronger jaws then racers the same length as them? I believe you guys

would you agree that coachwhips are more powerful then racers ? with larger teeth and jaw power? I think the original topic was just applied to racers then from few individual experiences and not coachwhips at all

Here in central fla racers live primarily on lizards and rarely exceed 5' anymore, same goes for our local cornsnakes, but our coachwhips can attain 100" which is over 8', so you cant really compare, but if a racer grew to 8' its bite would compare to a same sized coachwhip, all the longtailed snakes have very similar habits, they live in the same habitats, all are exceptionally intelligent because they spend their whole lives being chased by everything from birds to tractors, I even believe they're the most intelligent, up there with the king cobra, but they even have similar head plates and labials, I've seen indigos with a head like a coachwhip and seen coachwhips with a head like and indigo. oh and the snake in my last post is a 90" male I found under a matress, his midbody scales were nearley the size of a dime.

i cant believe it that loks like an indigo to me???

do indigos prey on coach whips often in florida? what are adult coachwhips main predators? Other than feral pigs?

Though they all use the same habitats they are often found segregated, Indigos are usually the only ground dwelling snake in their own home range (350 Acres) as the Yellow ratsnakes will stay in the treeholes as much as possible. Coachwhips are found in dunes on beaches and in the center of the state where ancient dunes still exist as orange groves, the Racers have adapted to urban areas pretty well and also thrive in Flatwoods but only where Indigos arnt the most common snake. I also wanted to mention this, lets say a Pinesnake's brain is wired like a Tortise, a Coachwhips brain is wired much more like a bird of prey like a Hawk or Eagle, I also have an Iguana that reminds me of a Chicken. Anyway, the pics in my second post are the Indigos.

so not much interaction in this:

I always wondered what would happen if a racer and coachwhip who were the same size met or a rat ssnake and a ooachwhip i understand the indigo snake is usually the king interesting find

texas http://www.texasflats.net/index.php/topic,7311.0.html