Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been reading about tons of people having problems with egg binding and no one coming up with a reason for it happening in the first place!!!!!! Could it be simple dehydration?? Indigos spend alot of time underground like ball pythons. We keep ball pythons soaking wet all the time. Should we not be keeping indigos just as wet?? Has anyone seen a indigo with scale rot from being kept to wet? I have see no other snake with such a high egg binding problem as the indigo. It has to be something we are doing. Surely indigos don't have this problem in the wild. What are y'all thoughts on this??

Breeding to young, Not enough activity, Getting females too fat
w/thinking fat = egg production, not enough natural sunlight,
and yes maybe hydration too! And breeding year after year
the same female. My thoughts from first hand experience!

Thanks

Breeding to young, Not enough activity, Getting females too fat
w/thinking fat = egg production, not enough natural sunlight,
and yes maybe hydration too! And breeding year after year
the same female. My thoughts from first hand experience!

Thanks

Wow that's alot of factors!!!! Do you still have problems with it from time to time Seth or have you figured it out 100%? Thanks for posting a reply. I hope to be breeding in a few years and need all the help I can get!!!!

Do yall think 3-4 years old is to young for a female to breed?

I think it depends on the individual.
There are those that have far more experience then me
out there.

>>Breeding to young, Not enough activity, Getting females too fat
>>w/thinking fat = egg production, not enough natural sunlight,
>>and yes maybe hydration too! And breeding year after year
>>the same female. My thoughts from first hand experience!
>>
>>Thanks

Seth has some valid points, but I am convinced that diet plays a huge role in it as well. A varied diet is essential. A strictly rodent diet just isn't good enough. In the wild these snakes are omnivores so I try to simulate a natural diet as closely as I can.
I have fed my indigo's mice, rats, chicks, quail, fish and road killed snakes.
It has sure made a big difference with my animals. As much as I'd like to take credit for this idea, I can't. Another breeder who shall remain nameless shared this with me a couple of years ago and I am grateful to him!

Excellent points, Seth.

To add to that, of thousands of snake breedings I've produced over forty years, I've certainly had my share of retained eggs. Not once has the offending egg been a fertile one. Always an infertile egg. The eggs before it may or may not have been good, and the same goes for those following eggs, but the one causing the problem is always a dud.

Likewise, I have had hundreds of wild caught snakes deposit eggs in captivity (and provided they were collected late enouigh in the spring to have allowed for wild mating) and have never seen a single infertile egg. And I have never seen egg-binding in a wild caught snake.

We as snake breeders simply have not yet figured out all of the nuances involved in the reproductive biology of these organisms. A captive induced clutch of fertile Cornsnake eggs (the easiest of all snakes to breed)in which *every single egg hatches successfully,* is still the exception rather the rule. We are lacking somewhere in our husbandry techniques. This may include utilizing outdoor enclosures, vitamin/mineral supliments, normal brumation, varied diets, and something I believe might be very important, the fighting of males to increase testosterone and sperm levels.

This is generally not possible in an urban setting. And with Indigos, I would personally have a lot of trouble watching my scale-perfect males shred themselves mercilessly every December.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer

Dear Cobra7, for sure there is more to it than dehydration, although I am quick to chime in that causes a lot of problems overall with reptile husbandry. Many keepers with extensive experience as well as beginners have endured egg binding...so it probably has varied factors involved. I can't help but wonder about the lethargic lives relative to wild ones our captives lead. I try to let them crawl and climb... I also notice most of our captives are thicker (fatter?) than wild ones...is that a factor? Has anyone seen a skinny or thin snake egg bound?

Regarding moisture, I DO KNOW that damp environments, i.e wet, are a problem, and I once gave my captive gravid female skin blisters on her venter by keeping the substrate in her nest box too damp. Humidity is fine, but damp substrates often lead to skin lesions etc. Fortunately she cleared up completely after two sheds and a drying her out, on good advice from Alan B. Egg binding is filled with speculation, but I am confident that damp environments are not a good idea, not to be confused with humidity (moisture in the air). Good luck to all and Zee's animal especially. Vic

Thanks for all the input. I hope to have 2.4 indigos within the year. I can't wait to start my new project. Indigos seem alot more challenging than anything else I've ever worked with.

I agree with Vic and will add a few observations of my own. I have known people who kept their indigos very "wet" with perpetually high humidity and limited ventilation. I observed one female in particular that they had that had a recurring problem with sores between her ventral scales and on her sides that eventually up and died one day. I'm sure that the too damp air contributed to the untimely demise of the snake. Also, during the breeding/egg laying season, temperatures are somewhat cooler, especially at night, and high humidity too cool temperatures = respiratory infection. What I do for my snakes is I provide a box full of moistened peat moss that they can hide and lay their eggs in, but they will often leave this box to bask, especially in the mornings.

While I have observed thinner females that have become egg bound (my female that became egg bound this year was a relatively lean snake), I agree with Vic's sentiments that captive snakes' sendentary life styles and high calorie diet probably contribute more than anything else to egg binding. I've also kind of wondered if calcium deficiency might play a role as well. Females put a lot of calcium into egg shells, thus depleting it in their system. To stimulate labor, vets administer calcium oxytocin...while I haven't done a whole lot of calcium supplementation in the past, I'm going to try it this year with my breeding females.

Link

Captive indigos often don't get enough moisture. They need wet hide boxes and access to plenty of drinking water. They can get blister disease but if they have moist hide boxes and dry cages they can self-regulate their hydration and avoid blister disease. They must have adequate levels of moisture to stay healthy enough to lay without binding.

I include UV light as well. I keep my sighthunters under the same lighting I use for desert lizards. These factors added to the already-mentioned dietary diversity, periodic vitamin supplements and limiting breeding to every several years instead of yearly or even every other year may spare female indigos from egg binding.

calcium.....needed for egg production and uterine contractions....smaller females may suffer deficiency at laying time???