Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Good evening,

I was just wondering what has happened to the standard black gap alterna. I know that black gap is unique in having a variety of unique alterna, however, when I look in the classifieds and the more recent pictures, I see a lot of patternless animals.

I agree totally. Unfortunately, people call them locality snakes because the founding stock was from Black Gap, but they have been selectively breed to produce animals that fit a certain phenotype. I will post what I believe to be the only F1, exact locality matched (same cut)clutch produced in a very long time in the next week or so. I am just waiting for them to shed. They certainly do not look like the cookie cutter, speckled Gaps that everyone else is producing.

BTW, what makes Black Gap snakes so cool is the diversity of the genetics in the population. That has been taken away due to the selective breeding. Look at Dan Johnson's wc Gap photos on his webpage.

http://www.dan-johnson.net/herp/Black_Gap_wc_photo_exhibit.html

Tell me how many that you see on there look like the ones that are always for sale in the classifieds.

Here are three more wc snakes not on his page.

Those are nice black gappers that you have there. Really nice. To be quite honest with you, I do not see any that look like the ones on the classifieds from Dan Johnsons page.

I remember talking to Larry Briggs once and I asked him what was his favorite locality alterna. His reply, "Black Gap, because you never know what to expect once they come out of the egg." Its a shaming that patternless black gappers dominate the classifieds nowadays.

The general public wants pretty greybands. Not all Black gaps are cool but every one of them has the potential to produce some cool stuff. We breed to get the cool stuff call it 2nd gen or 3rd gen but that's why we breed them or that's why I do it.
It's fustrating to produce a classic locality alterna that nobody wants that's why you don't see the classic gaps any more because the main stream wants the patternless
not the normals. The true collectors want them but, we also want to be the ones to collect them. I can still remmeber the day I found everyone of my alterna.
If your going to have greybands then you need to experience West Texas and smell the desert and spend a week and earn it to really enjoy alterna. Anybody can have a bright orange langtry blairs. The pic is a wc black gap.

you guys scored that top snake and I saw pics. Quite frankly one of the best gaps ever obtained. I too like the more "normal" looking gaps. But then again, I would still pee myself if I ran across a patternless or weird one the road. Wonder what ever happened to the original "patternless"?

Good Thread BTW!

StevenX

Believe me Steven, I peed myself plenty when we found that first one. I have nothing against the patternless snakes, I would LOVE to find one. They are just not a very good representation of what a "Black Gap" looks like. I think that many people would expect a wild caught snake from FM 2627 to be either speckled or patternless. If they had the extreme fortune of finding an alterna there, more than likely they would be disappointed.

I agree with this too. Alot of Gaps look like dark Langtry Blair's, just with narrower bands than the average Langtry. I would not be disappointed to catch one of those though 'cause it would still be a freakin' Gap. Hard snakes to find and any are an awesome find.

Denny Miller's black and red Blair's was awesome and I bet you could produce those out of the Langtry looking ones.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

Normal Gaps are incredible!!

I used to own the male Bullseye specimen that was pictured on Dan Johnson's site, as I purchased it from him in 2002 I think. That was my first and only ever Black Gap, and I do miss him as he passed from old age.

I do love how the Black Gap blairs seem to me have their own look vs. other locality blairs, in terms of their patterning.
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Genesis 1:1

This is why I think the Locality label is a bunch of crap. As soon as they are selectively bred they are no longer the classic snakes that came from a certain area. They are man made morphs and should be labeled as such. If the locality snake doesn't look classic then it might as well be called generic or some other term, NOT Locality.
I'm sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.
theOLDherper
Pete

Peters- sorry I dont know your real name. I will say this. Most know me as Steven "darkphase" owens because it seems to be what I find. But I keep the uglies as well as the light phase. Most know me as a Nut and I am what I am. I have never seen an alterna I dont like.

And true to my word, I would rather catch the ugliest one eyed alterna any day to the best pyro or anything else.

But.. I do agree with you. Line breeding locality alterna for a certain look "can" damage the integrity of a locality. Example breeding a certain locality for an alterna morph that doesn't normally exist from that site.

Good post.

StevenX

Steven,
My real name is G.F.'Pete' Peters, but in the past I have been called a lot of other names by a couple of other locality fanatics on this forum. It got so bad a few months ago that our moderator pulled two days of posts.
To me I have no argument with creating something different by selective breeding, but to still call it locality specimen is compltely assinine. It's like calling a poodle a wolf.
But, like they say - to each his own.
By the way, I own a couple of hybreds because I think they look neet and I don't give a damn where they came from.
theOLDherper
Pete

I used to feel that way but each locality has a different look when selectively bred. They don't look like the wc but they don't look like each other either so IMHO the locality is still pertinant.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

Agreed!
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Genesis 1:1

The patternless Gaps come from a wc patternless so IMHO it doesn't matter if there are 1,000 patternless Gaps on the market, they all still look like that one awesome wc that most hunters would probably love to have caught.

But yes it would be a shame if ALL cb Gaps were patternless.

I would also point out that bbox's wc light alterna he posted looks better than 95% of cb alterna from any locality, the Gap included. Kubos to him for catching it. I'm sure he will want to reproduce that look with cb's and recognize that he will also produce many Gaps just because they are Gaps.

I have never caught a Gap. All mine are from Dan but I have a wide array of looks, from patternless to typical dark alterna and even bland Langtry looking Blair's. I like them all.
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www.hcu-tx.org/