Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am begining to see a lot of hyrids for sale at high prices & just want to know how people feel. i personally will not breed my male ball python to my female macklots just b/c I don't have a male to mate her w/ yet. My male ball has a female & eggs incubating. I think these high prices are encouring people to interbreed species not even sister species,aspidtes is far from python,at the diamond,green tree,& carpets all belong to morelia. Ok some species naturally hybridize ie retics & burms but what I'm seeing is species that would never meet in natural circumstances so why breed these to comnad a higher price? Have these hybrids even proven to be fertile? The hobby is to preserve not destroy species. This doesn't just apply to pythons but I see lampropeltis & elaphe hybrids etc.

I don´t think the hobby is to preserve species at all. I have never heard of any in this hobby, reintroducing their animals to the wild.
Zoo etc. have breeding programs and so on, but a hobbyist have his/her animals for selfish reasons.
I don´t find hybrids interesting, but as long as they are labelled as what they are, i have no problem with them.

Jonas

There lots of species being bred in the hobby that are in peril or have low poulation densities to start. Presevation doesn't nessacarily mean reintroduction to the wild as habitat any of these animals come from is being made into human domain,which is how many species are found also.I think Womas & Diamond pythons are hard enough to find pure lines w/o hybridizing intintionally.

>>There lots of species being bred in the hobby that are in peril or have low poulation densities to start. Presevation doesn't nessacarily mean reintroduction to the wild as habitat any of these animals come from is being made into human domain,which is how many species are found also.I think Womas & Diamond pythons are hard enough to find pure lines w/o hybridizing intintionally.

Yeah but if we're keeping them purely for selfish reasons 9and I admit I do) then all the talk I hear floating about "saving wild populations" is total BS (and I suspect it 99% is).
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

I don't think it is all that easy to produce hybrids in many cases. Yes they are fertile. Where does that idea come from that reptile hybrids aren't fertile? I hear it often, and it is proved wrong every time with snakes anyway - as long as it is with snakes that will breed with one another. A hybrid done in a lab might be another story.. a gartersnake with a python.. yeah, OK, maybe not working out.

I understand your concern about species preservation. That really requires habitat preservation, otherwise you just have captives that stay in captivity. And lets face it, all of our captives pretty much stay that way.

If an institution was trying to introduce animals into the wild, then they shouldn't hybridize those animals they are introducing. But if I or someone has a hybrid in a sweaterbox, what is it that you fear? Heck, laws will end this hobby faster than your worry about hybrids. And if laws get so bad that in order to protect wild snakes they only allow hybrids, you and I will have hybrids.

This hobby is driven by various things, one of which is variety. I think hybrids can add to that. I don't have any myself, but I might have one if the really interesting looking ones didn't cost so much lol.
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Mark

No fear just not sure as to why the high prices for something that was produced by what wouldn't normally occur even in captivity certain species are hard to come by diamond & woma pythons being some of them why water down these bloodlines w/ more common animals like ball,& carpet pythons? I seen the fish hobby overun w/ hybrids to the point it's hard to find certain species that were already rare to start w/. I don't want to see the same w/ herps. I agree laws are full steam not in our favor but still...we don't have to let greed implode us.

I have noticed the same trend and I mostly agree with you.
I guess as morph/designer breeding projects are getting exhausted, some breeders turn to a new money making interests, interracial hybridazing.
They are fertile, really? Please tell me some that will produce fertile youngs when you pair them up with hybrids of the same ancestors.

Are there naturally occuring hybrids? No, people stop convincing there are hybrids existing in the wild. There are not. There are myth like the the first Bateater was WC, which is nonsense, even if the first one was an imported python. Show me a study that describes any wild found hybrids of pythons or boas. There is none. Also, if there would be any "hybrid" population in the wild, they have already been described as a separate species several decades ago most likely.

Anyone who is a little into biology, zoology, nature, etc should know that those hybrids are a DEAD END from various standpoints. How many breeders have you seen advertising like "I'm asking 5000$, for this Coelen python (BoelenXCarpet) which will never produce any offspring as they are unfertile"? I'm sure not too many.
Creating hybrids happens only by manipulating in captive conditions and is considerably a passive way of animal torture. If something, these hybridising should really be banned, at least doing it for financial interests. I'm curious to see how many people would be involved in these projects, after selling hybrids for money would have been banned.
By the way, in some countries according to the animals wellfare laws, you cannot sell an animals that are not able to reproduce fertile youngs, which prevents creating hybrids in the first place.