I was just wondering if anyone on here keeps leucistic black rats. Don Soderburg's site indicates that those he works with tend to be smaller and more docile than his leucistic Texas rats. If anyone has kept both, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that. Also, I've seen several adults with a yellow wash to their coloration, which is something I've never noticed in leucistic TX rats before-any thoughts on that?
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Leucistic Black Rats?
Kevin Saunders
Sep 26, 2011 09:38 AM
Replies (17)
varanid
Sep 27, 2011 01:17 AM
More docile than your average Texas rat is like saying something is drier than the ocean though...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
RichardHurtz
Sep 27, 2011 04:29 AM
My texas rat gets a yellow tint right before it sheds. It's possible the snakes are about to shed.
JYohe
Sep 28, 2011 07:07 PM
Leucy black rats are not 100% black rat...they were made with Texas rats and black rats to start....so no matter how many generations you go...it will always be a mix.....
Thank Larry Rouch for that one....
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........JY
DMong
Sep 28, 2011 09:22 PM
And even if they did first originate as one or the other subspecies, there now has to be countless crosses of the two out in the hobby now anyway,............guaranteed!
To the OP, I had a female a couple years ago that did indeed have a very noticeable yellow hue to her coloration.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
Tony D
Oct 03, 2011 10:04 AM
I had this discussion with a pretty reputable local guy who insisted that there is also a "pure" strain. Perhaps this is the reason some have a yellow wash while others do not.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
DMong
Oct 03, 2011 04:47 PM
That is always a possibility Tony, but how on earth can they be accurately identified from one another when they are both white snakes with the very same scalation meristics?
I just don't see being able to testify in court that most of them are known to be 100% Black Rat, Texas Rat, or even intergrades unless the person knows for a fact that their bloodline came from far within a specific range. I think a few people might have these, but certainly there has to be lots of crosses floating around in the hobby too. As to which lines are genuinely one or the other is anyone's guess unless they got theirs from someone that knows for an absolute fact where they indeed originated from.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Tony D
Oct 03, 2011 08:36 PM
Great Doug. Now that I know of this genetic travesty I'll never get to sleep.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
DMong
Oct 03, 2011 09:50 PM
Never said anything about them being a "genetic travesty". Just saying alot of folks can't tell which one's they have because there is virtually no way to tell without any color or pattern. Mine were no different that I used to have either. I couldn't tell with any certainty if they were leucy Texas Rats or Blacks.
That was my ONLY point. Now try your best to get a good sleep anyway.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Tony D
Oct 04, 2011 08:01 AM
I think its easy enough to look at a given specimen and see what the dominant influence is.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
DMong
Oct 05, 2011 12:18 PM
Tony,...could you please explain everyone on how to properly identify a leucistic Texas Rat from a leucistic Black rat from these dominant characteristics you mentioned that set them apart?
It would also be very helpful if you could explain how to properly identify a leucistic Texas x Black intergrade as well.
Also, if they weren't 50%-50% intergrades, how would you distinguish this..
I guess what I am trying to ask is.......what are these dominant characteristics of either of the two leucistic forms?..
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Tony D
Oct 05, 2011 02:39 PM
The difference is in the ratio of the body to head and neck. The general shape of black rat is quite distinct from that of a TX form. You would have to agree that there is obviously enough of a difference to market them as such. That said, I admit the point may be somewhat moot depending on the local of the specimens used for the comparison. If you were pulling them out of adjacent counties in LA you might not see much of a difference.
I would not care to speculate on how this would manifest in an F1 cross because it was never my intent to take that on. I simply meant to say that if you want a lucy black rat you should look for characteristics that are manifest of that form. The same goes if you want a lucy TX rat.
The only issue here is that some want genetic purity, which I do not believe exists in this instance. People seem to forget the reproductive isolation is not a prerequisite for subspecific status and want something of captive animals that isn’t even true of wild populations. I can’t help that and they haven’t invented a pill for it yet.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
lewaves
Oct 10, 2011 02:13 PM
There are definately Luecistic Black Rats without Texas in them. A gravid wild caught female was caught in Vermilion Ohio in a barn in 1989. Some of these animals are still out there, that were not crossed with or related to Larry Rousch animals. This barn had several large normal black Ratsnakes in it that the new owner also wanted removed. The animals were very docile from the time they were caught.
Tony D
Oct 10, 2011 07:23 PM
That's pretty much the mythology I heard but its never been traced tot he actual participants that I'm aware.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
lewaves
Oct 11, 2011 10:58 AM
It is definately not mythology. I have first hand knowledge of that animal and the offspring.
Tony D
Oct 11, 2011 01:18 PM
Awesome. Got names and pics? Not being sarcastic as I'd like to have a verified pair simply to shut the critics up but without people coming off names and providing some picture evidence of the original speculation will persist.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
lewaves
Oct 11, 2011 05:56 PM
I have a many picture of the adult WC female but the picture predates digital photography. (taken in 1991)
Tony D
Oct 12, 2011 08:25 AM
That's great. Scan them and wala they're digital! What else would be needed would be the disposition of the animal who got it and did the test breedings and some discussion of who's hands subsequent generations went to that is solid enough to prove it was never out crossed.
Given that you would effectively establish a more pure line of this morph for those who are interested. In the interem all people have to go by is the build of individual animals and even this is highly subjective.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
