Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The savannah monitor I got is doing great! But I'm still not sure how many crickets/insects I should be feeding him at one time. I've been doing 1/4 cup ground turkey/raw egg/powder vitamins 30 crickets or superworms or roaches, but it seems like he can eat a lot more. Does anyone have an estimate? He's 2 1/2 feet long, 2-3 years old.

he will eat till he pops...in the wild they are opportunistic they eat cause they don't know when they will eat again.....I give mine insects every other day...sometimes I'll substitute with the turkey mix...sometimes I'll give em some eggs some times a mouse or 2.....but these are only snacks and only given rarely....( the turkey diet is acceptable) the insects should be his bulk all in all each monitors different....I once gave mine 2 mice 50 crickets and 2 large grasshoppers two days later he draped it out and it was as if he never ate....

good luck

Hi Drizztice,
I`d just like to ask you why the bulk of the diet for an adult Savannah monitor should be insects (nothing wrong with feeding them), but there are better alternatives, such as rodents, and other vertebtrates.
Also, what "turkey diet" are you talking about; the very carefully formulated San Diego zoo diet, or your own recipe, which would probably be less than ideal (no offense)?
Thanks!

Hey murrindini,

The san diego zoo diet was exactly what i meant! No offence taken! LOL

And i agree a rodent based diet would b more than sufficient..( and probably more cost effective). I tend to go the insectivore route with my guy but i know there is a point of contention about that amongst Sav owners. I am very aware of who u are and ur qualifications ( as per dishing out advice monitors) so please feel free to bash anything i say ( not jokeing or taking any offence) i could only learn from your experience

Thank u

I thought a purely rodent diet wasn't suitable for Savannahs? All the caresheets I went through said 100% rodent 100% of the time would lead to obesity fast and Savs are mostly insectivores.

Hi Leesah,
I don`t know which caresheets you`ve read, or who wrote them, but I promise you that if you offer your Savannah monitor optimum conditions (sufficient basking temps etc), it will NOT become obese. nor should it die in a year or two, because it was fed rodents, or any other vertebrate prey....
Can you ask the people who say they cannot eat the items I mention how old their Savannah monitors are, how many times they`ve bred them, on an insect only diet?
I know how very confusing it is for you with so much conflicting info, until you get "their" answers, you will never know the truth...Ask "them" to show you pics of their 10 yr old Savannah`s. 10 years isn`t "old".

A bit confusing, but that's why I'm here to get opinions from actual keepers!

Would you recommend rodents in addition to the SDZ diet or instead of? I'm guessing once you've got a good base diet down the occasional handful of insects is at least a good way to provide some in cage stimulation. I rather enjoy watching him chase the crickets and roaches around, honestly.

I personally offer my monitors a little variety, but always whole prey animals. There`s nothing wrong with offering inverts, but there are more nutritious foods, rodents being one of them. I`ll make a guess and say you add supplenments to the inverts? The rodents don`t need that, they are a "complete" meal in themselves!
If it were my monitor, I would feed mainly vertebrate prey, and some inverts too.... You can also offer fertilised quail eggs now and again, just break one over a rodent, or feed as is.

Hi again Drizztice,
I`m not "bashing" anyone (I promise), I only hope in a small way what I say might help the keeper/s help their animals!
If you use the SDZ diet EXACTLY as formulated, then it`s shown to be adequate. I just wonder why you/anyone else that used that would need to feed insects, or anything else as well?
By the way, Savannah monitors in the areas they were studied, did NOT feed mainly on "insects", rather, Giant African millipedes and snails.
This topic is raised very often, I`m not convinced it will EVER be agreed upon!!
I`ll ask the question Mr. Frank Retes would probably ask: how long have you kept your sav monitor/s, and have you managed to breed successfuly (if you have a male and female, of course), and can you show a few pics, just for interest sake, NOT to criticise?
Thanks!

Hey,

Hey Murrindindi,

I totaly know u werent bashing! I was just trying to explain that i would accept any form of criticism u offered. My savy is about 1 year old. Not sure of the sex and i know he/she is hella nervouse all the time... Ive been following the advice givenby u and FR to keep him healthy and he looks great...( im gunna increase his rodent intake now that u advises it is a good idea)

I would love to post some pics of him and his cage...but i have no clue how to go about doing that lol..it would give me a chance to really ask a question about his cage that ive meant to ask for a while

Gee Drizztice, it`s sooo good to hear you don`t know how to post pics on this website, it really is........

Neither do I!!
Do you have any on Photobucket or elsewhere?

Lol thas awesome!!! I will send u a link to my you tube site it has vids of my cages...ill make a video tonight and upload it ...this way u will have an updated look at whats goin on and can chime in on my u tube with any advice u may have...i had to cut a lot of corners because of living space...bit for what i got i did my best...i also have pics and vids of a timor monitor ( that escaped and died) my trio of v. similis ( 1.2) and today lll showcase my ackies and their cage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdxzVTQ-lI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

here is a link to one of my feeding bids....be heartless in your judgement....lol I mean it.... I did my best cage wise the dimensions are about

3 ft wide
6th long
2.5 or 2.8 feet tall

I also added an addition of a 40 breeder filled wit dirt....you'll see it In my next vid... his cage is an old dresser with an extension that I built on it....seriously though give me some on what I can do to improve it....also....
I uploaded a new vid today should be ready for viewing soon

Will you do me a favour, can you PM me your youtube username, it will be quicker than me typing out the link (which doesn`t show anything? Thanks!

How do i pm u??

My you tube page is ...titsinkuen

You can PM me by clicking on my username at the top of my replies.... (I think)!?

hey also if u search for v. similis in you tube. you can find my video my channel is titsinkuen

One part of keeping savs that seems to be missed out all the time is skill level & the resulting correct use of equipment.

Many skilled monitor breeders get away with feeding mice because they understand their captives needs & can alter as required, i should say Frank could breed most monitors with his eyes shut & one hand tied behind his back.

The problem is keepers with little experience regularly take these pets on thinking they know best & usually ending in failure with-in the 1st year.

The idea of feeding 5 days insects/bugs & mice/rats/eggs/chicks at weekends ( not all together) with-in the 1st year helps corrects some of the blips in newbies husbandry.

To many mice & incorrect basking flood spot & cages that dry out with-in an hour or so add to the problem, get new keepers to put tubs of sandy soil in their baron cages, show them the right bulbs, the right way to set them up etc.

I'm quite show if i'd done things different maybe i'd still have my sav, i did everything to the best of my knowledge at the time, mostly figuring out from multiple care sheets who new what they were on about on the world wide web.

I've asked so many times to see a 10 year old sav, not seen one yet, maybe because them that seem to have got it right lose them at around 8 years old.

Long keepers need to agree on a care sheet that address the newbie keeper, rather than all going off in different directions, then as the keeper gets through the 1st year they can evolve with their pet.

This was the early years that probably did the damage>

This is after the flab had been removed & in a crappy cage>

& this is where i'm to nowadays, it would of been so nice to house my male & female sav in here>

deep tunnel, the fish is 4/5"

good luck with your sav!

Thanks for chiming in MDF....i am furious with my situation cause i did actually do tons of research before i actually went and got this guy....ive had him since he was very small and hes grown steadily...( and from what i can tell healthily) ....so what i would like to do is improve his situation but ...i have no clue how as space is an issue...i am constantly told ..."thats my opinion" ...ofcourse it is! Lol i wanna know what i should do to improve the situation from this point foward...if u can offer some advice it would be greatly appreciated!

The best advice anyone can give is the following>

Find out who's has bred different monitor species over a number of years & listen to them, but also take into account their experts in their field & what comes easy to them might not to you!

If only we could connect up & download it in seconds rather than gaining the knowledge over years.

Your monitor will tell you how much to feed it, not someone/anyone on the internet.

If your unsure how to suppor that then ask about how to read your monitor. Cheers

ps. See, I only did two cents worth.

Ok....so how do u read ur monitor!!

For example: if your monitor vomits oit his foo in the middle of the night...what could that mean ( this is a hypothetical)

It could be many different things depending on the monitor species & the husbandry it's kept in>

Cold floors/substrate, incorrect basking temps, your monitors been spooked big time or handle after a meal & so on.

A monitor should make full use of it's cage at different times of the day, it doesn't something might be wrong or it's just insecure in a new environment.

Example sitting in the water bowl all day in the cool end, could be to dry or to hot or something else not so common, that's something we/you have to learn over time, the thing we can't down load lol!

& FR is one of those multiple monitor breeders people.

Frank Retes has been trying to tell keepers how to do it for years, so why are so many monitors still dying by the thousand every year? Answer: People don`t listen and then ACT on the advise AS OFFERED by the people who know how to do it time and again.
Rather, "they" just pick out the bits that fit most closely to what their own ideas are, based on virtually no knowledge or experience....
The internet`s full of people with a few months/couple of years "experience" who then tour the forums telling everyone else what to do and how to do it? That`s a big part of what`s going wrong (confusion), in my opinion!

I totally agree Murrindindi....thank you for the time...

and thank you Fr

and you Mdf

Lets take it a little further.

Many or even most folks treat this area like they do most school work, academically.

That is, they learn here like they learn in school. To read something, then repeat it as read. To reguritate. Like they would on a pop quiz.

They are somehow taught that is how you gain knowledge. Which is wrong in all walks of life. That knowledge is academic. Its important, but academic.

The knowledge that is important here is knowledge gained from the application of academic information. That is, learnig as the result of applying academics. Literally to TEST. To produce a result, etc

So its very common for many, to come to places like this, ask questions, do what they call research, visit other forums. Then reguritate what they have read as knowledge. Then they attempt to teach others.

The problem is, when another newbie attempts to apply that knowledge, the animal dies. This is seen over and over and is a daily problem in a non academic field.

In the case of this forum, you COULD blame the moderators for not guiding the source of information. That is, restrict the teaching of academics in a applied field, or provide another forum based on academics. I would think the later would be great.

What is so very odd to me. Here the owners break up common subjects into a whole bunch of seperate forums, but miss the boat on what is applied information and what is academic information. Consider, both or good and valuable. But one is not a major player in an area that requires application and results.

In the end, what should be taught here is knowledge gained from application. Not knowledge gained from the simple reading.

In reality, we all suffer from this. In my opinion, and in my own work, I struggle on a daily basis with what is academic and what is not.

The key to understanding this is, everything the animal does, IS NOT ACADEMIC. So I say, listen to the animals.

An example would be, if its hungry feed it, if it gets fat, heat it, If it multicutches, admire and support it. If it grows fast and sound, again admire it and support it.

If it fails or dies, take responsibility for that. Not just take responsibility, but OWN that responsibility.

The case here is exactly that responsibility. YOu can blame JoJo the monitor guru, for what he told you, or you can take the result as yours, and if its in your cage, in fact, its your responsibility.

Now days, the information is out there and proven.

I see your point about having a mix of academic and experiential based information. There is a lot of bad information out there and a lot of new keepers, like myself, who often dont take the time to find out which is the best information.

Im interested in the argument of rodents versus inverts and would like to discuss it further. Like I said above, I am in no way even close to any kind of authority. Im merely a new keeper who has read everything I can get my hands on. I've read the numerous articles about wild savs and their natural foods. While you are right that millipedes were the bulk of the insects they eat (and lets face it, no one is feeding them that), the overwhelming thing I get from this is that there are no vertebrates at all in any of the animals collected. The biggest difference between verts and inverts is fat content, so this begs the question. With such a specialized diet in the wild is it healthy over time to mess with that? The idea is not to have an animal that merely lives or continues but to give them the healthiest diet we can possibly give them as responsible owners. I know that my children will live and grow if I feed them hamburgers, but I also know that this could very likely lead to health problems down the road, even if I make them also run a few miles a day. I guess I dont see the point of feeding more than the very occasional mouse. If we know that their diet in the wild (which is what we are trying to replicate) does not include vertebrates, and it is very simple to feed them their natural diet, then why not do so? Will they still live and breed? Odds are yes. Will my children live and have their own children if I feed them McDonalds three times a week? Odds again are yes, but Im still not doing that. Again, Im not saying this from some great experience, but rather from what I think is a common sense approach to what I have learned from the scientific evidence we have of them in their natural habitat

Sorry, just went back and realized I was comparing a whole mouse as food to McDonalds, which is admittedly a pretty loose comparison of nutrition. I read further down on the threads here and came across a number of similar threads about diet. It seems like many of the experienced keepers are saying that Daniel's study was very limited in time and place. However, it was limited to the area that most sav's in this country come from, so that seems valid. It also shows that these animals come from an area typically high in rodents (farmland/grasslands) and so if they were not specialized it would make sense that at any time of year, no matter how limited the scope, at least some of these animals would show vertebrate prey. Again, the fact that NOT A SINGLE ONE did seems to me the telling part.

I know this is an old argument, but thats how science goes. Learn, debate, repeat!

your on the wrong forum to have a civil, meaningful conversation about varanid diet. There are great ongoing discussion of this topic on the forums that allow multiple viewponts to be aired.
One important point about Daniel's work is that he sites multiple other sources and has practically begged others to continue the work there to be able to have more data to go on, but the prevailing judgment here is that science is worthless and academics are to be distrusted.
There is an active, interested and engaging varanid community online, it's out there if you look for it.
Ben

And Drizztice, and again this is only a thought, but I think perhaps the feeding of live mice is maybe not a great idea. It doesnt seem like savs are great at killing their prey quickly enough to not risk a serious injury to an eye. All it takes is a quick swipe by a mouse's claw or teeth and youve got a one eyed sav and a serious risk of a deadly infection. Admittedly its pretty cool to watch animals hunt, but you gotta temper that with the risk to the animal I think.