Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone. I recently picked up a sav after my other one passed away, he was a few years old and was a rescue. He died due to the lack of care he had been given for so long in the past, I'm amazed he lived a year with me

So when I had the chance to buy this sav, who's tail is badly kinked (and was neglected), I jumped on it!

The breeder (a reptile store that sells their offspring) got him in 6 months ago and nursed him back to health. then I found him a few days ago. I brought him into my care yesterday

Well, I don't know if he is perfectly healthy...

Ill let the pictures do the talking:

Warning, graphic pictures. But they need to be shown

I discovered this a few hours after getting him. I picked him up in the morning then got a job at a pet store so I had to go to work. When I came home I got to inspect him further and that's when I found it

I have him in a 25 inch long by 1 foot wide by 7 - 8 inches tall tub with a screen installed into the lid for the hot spot. He also has 3 - 4 inches of dirt to go crazy on (hes still a lil guy)

I have him basking at 110f - 120f (because he's not full grown I don't want to over do it) and when I got him I acclimated him slowly up to 110f. then moved it up slowly from there

He has a a hide buried in soil with only the entrance sticking out, a large water dish for soaking and drinking (which is changed very often to keep it clean)

Humidity is 60 - 70% constant

I brought him back to the breeder today for advice.. and they say it's just his hemipene's being averted. But they have been sticking out constantly since I noticed it

and now, no matter what I do, it is not re-hydrating! I have poured comfortably warm water onto it several times but that hasn't helped. Soon I am going to give him a sugar loaded bath for 30 - 45 minutes to see if that helps it

But ultimately in the end I think I am returning him tomorrow. I didn't sign up for a bunch of medical problems, I was looking for a healthy animal (regardless of its past, it should be 100% healthy before being sold) but I don't think I got that

What do you guys think it is? Prolapse? Hemipenes? any help is greatly appreciated

by the way, the brown stuff on the rectal area was dirt from dragging that thing around.. I moved him to newspaper, but had to take it out of the tub for fear of it burning today when I turned the heat lamp back on

Thanks

Newspaper won`t burn under a heat lamp, unless it`s actually touching (and I think it would need to be a relatively high wattage bulb). What wattage is it?

Hi, is this a serious post (before I offer advise)?
I ask, because you say you bought an animal with a badly kinked tail, and it had been neglected, but you only wanted a healthy monitor, and you keep it in a plasic box that`s only 8inches high??

It is a serious post (I posted a picture of the animal :l), he is in a perfectly suitable tub. It is high enough to provide enough digging space/depth while still giving him tons of room between the ground and the top of the tub

I would rather use a tub than a terrible aquarium (better humidity, more seclusion ect ect)

Is this just hemipenes though? I don't think it is... I think it's a prolapse or something but the store swears up and down that its normal

I bought a sav that USE to be unhealthy, I bought it thinking it is 100% fine now and good to go (as they told me!). But apparently that's not the case.

Thanks

Hi again, o.k, I`ll take you seriously!
I really don`t know how you can say there`s "tons of space" in an 8inch high plastic tub??
How are you creating a temp gradient in something that small?
Looking at the pic, I would say it`s the hemipenes, although if the monitor cannot retract them, it`s a problem. Have you tried (extremely gently) pushing them back in, if yes, and it doesn`t hold, either see a vet, or take the animal back.
If you`ve kept these animals previously, why didn`t you construct a proper enclosure first (I`m not trying to insult you, I just don`t understand)?

The tub is plenty big, it just lacks a little bit of height

It is 25 inch long, 1.5 foot wide and 8 inches high. I have a gradient in the tub by putting the basking site very close to one side of the tub, and on the cool side it is misted to keep the humidity up and to keep the temps down a bit. Hot side is 110 - 125f (I use a 150W daylight bulb with UVA output, and I dust his insects for the calcium and D3 that he needs) and cool side is 75 - 80

Humidity is still 60 - 70% constant

This is a temporary enclosure. I was going to build him a 6x3x4 at christmas time... but I'm not so sure about that now...

I returned him to the breeder and they are keeping him there for a few days to monitor (no pun intended) him more, if he is having problems they are willing to give me back 50% of the purchase price (or store credit)

Thanks for all the help! So far though, I think i've done everything right besides having the tub be a little too low, if it's a problem I could probably pick up a much higher (and bigger) tub for him before I pick him up again

Thanks again!

One sheet of $20 plywood will make a cage 24Lx20wx28T. Along with some old paint that some body you now must have in a garage or basement. 2 pices of $12 plexy glass for a door. Will let you put a foot of dirt and have a big enough window to work in the cage. The wood will eventually rot at the dirt line but this would be a much better cage that will last more than long enough as it will out grow it quickly.$44 and a couple hours would be a much better situation for a few months. Good luck.

There is no way you have a 75 degree cool side with a 150W bulb in a 25"x18"x8" tub. I have a 50W on a 36x28x18 Vision cage and the coolest temp in the cage is 78 degrees. Tubs are good for snakes, not monitors.

you wanna bet?

I have a lot of ventilation above the cool side, which allows heat to escape and I mist with cold water (not directly on the lizard) which saturates the cool side and keeps temps down

I dont just turn on the heat lamp and expect the cool side to stay at 75 - 80 in a smaller enclosure (smaller than recommended for the bulb)

I have it all figured out already though, so dont worry. and I am not guessing, I take temps from both sides of the enclosure and they are exactly what I have said they are

Thanks

Yeah, I'll bet. How are we going to accomplish this bet?

It's not the air from the cool side that your losing. if your vents are up high, in a 8 inch tub. If the vents are on the lid (I don't know if they are) then it's the warm are that is escaping, as air warms it expands and rises and rolls along the top of the enclosure if it finds a way out up there it's trouble. 150 watt bulb only 8 inches of height with a way out its's a jet stream.

what wattage bulb do you recommend to achieve a 130F hotspot? I have a 90 watt flood light.. that's a lot less than 150W

the cool side was fine, I measured ground temps and they were always 75 - 80 even with a 110 hotspot and rising

I KNOW the cool side was fine

50% of your money back seems like a sham. If the pet shop did give you a faulty lizard. I would follow with chuck norris round houses for everyone in the shop until I got a full refund. I don't have much exp with monitors but I have a 36x24x18 cage atm with a 150Watt mega ray and the cool side is hard to keep under 80 as well. I don't really worry about it though because my monitor has dug a foot hole down in the soil and it is plenty of coolness down there. Prolly around 70 degree, you must mist a lot.

Reply for shottz: What species are you housing in a 3 x 2 x 1.5ft tank (unless it`s a V. acanthurus, or a hatchling)?
Also, you don`t need to use a UVB lamp for captive varanids (unless you`re trying to keep the ambient temps up), which I doubt, in that small space.

It is a hatchling. Got it a few weeks ago. It is doing amazing so far. It comes out of its hide and sits where the cage opens to get fed. It will crawl on my hand and chill but it doesn't like fast movement or fingers. It is not scard and jumpy though, it pretty much stands its ground when I change the water and stuff. I do think its funny though when the day light cycle turns on he is out and right at the entrance waiting for me to feed him. I may need to change something though because he mistakes fingers for pinky mice real real easy. It managed to bite me a few times thinking my finger was food. I was trying the feed and then pet him while hes feeding but he jumps like 2 feet grabs the mouse and then runs back in the cage lol. I actually have a video of him jumping from inside the cage all the way in the air outside the cage to my computer chair ripping a pinky outta the pair of tongs I feed him with. I think some of it has to do with his cage being right next to my computer desk and i work from my computer at home so it sees me about 10 hours a day straight. This is prolly why it is so used to me already after only a few weeks. If i left the cage open I am pretty sure it would come out and climb on me until I fed him.

Hi again shottz,
the best way to get him to not eat your finger is to use tongs!!
If you have a video somewhere, may I see it, I can at least tell you whether it`s a Nile or an Ornate monitor? Thanks!

Its ornate, 5 rows of dots and has a pink tounge. I use tongs to feed him, but when I reach inside to pick him up I make a fist and once I get to him I open the fist. If I put open hand in there he loves them fingers

Hey Mike, skimming most of the thread, it does sound like you have setup issues.

Stop with the band aids to overcome fundamental issues : )

Lots of airflow to create a cooler spot is not the way you wanna go. Your cage should limit venting, not encourage it. Otherwise, especially with a high wattage bulb, you are just creating a beef jerky machine, and your lizard is the jerky. That creates poor results.

We set up cages with 130, 140, 150F hot spots using a simple 50 watt Halogen flood bulb. It is about limiting venting (heat loss) and using an elevated basking spot.

Some basic husbandry techniques will get you further along in the game.

Best of luck.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

okay, but when this happened he had never been exposed to over 95f, and when I discovered it the heat lamp wasn't even set up/on

so it doesn't matter in regards to the health problem he is experiencing, that didn't cause this. If I pick up another animal I am using am much bigger and taller tub though

Thanks!

Hi Mike,

Forgive me, I have not read through all of the posts.. I scanned them. I scanned yours too. But, I did see the photo and got a general consensus of what was said.

In my experience, I have seen this before. Unfortunately, not with any monitor but with a baby tortoise. I'm not sure if you specified exactly-- if the structures are constantly exposed and do not go back in? If so, the animal is prolapsed- to answer your question.

It appears the surface on the skin looks a little infected. I have not seen many of these and so perhaps I am wrong. The area does appear blistered and irritated. With the tortoise, his eventually receded and we were very happy for this. We applied neosporin to the area daily (and I'm not sure this is needed), proper care and eventually it receded back in to normal. Ideally, you shouldn't have to apply neosporin or any other medication if the animal is given optimum care. A lot of health issues can be cleared up with good husbandry.

..This incidence is very likely due to poor husbandry that supported such an event. It is possible the monitor everted and when doing so, got dirt on the area promoting this issue. Regardless, this is simple speculation and does not matter much--what is most important and relevent to you now is that you offer the best you can and perhaps even a vet visit.

And I have to respond to your response to Robyn. You must realize that it DOES matter what you are offering to your lizard. Yes, you received him this way and his husbandry was improper, but your husbandry will be key in supporting him in the potential of getting and staying better.. best. Your husbandry DOES matter. Right now.. what he (or she) is being given. He/she will use what he has available to him. So, please do listen to the advice given to you. Especially in bumping up your temps, your humidity and the size. Choices are important. Cool, hot, basking zones at the right temp, ranges, hides, substrate depth, etc.

What was the monitor eating.. and what are you now feeding him/her? How is his/her appetite?

Also, try to post a picture of the whole monitor, if you're able.

Thanks,

Mary

Hi Mary

According to a few vets I have talked to. Reptiles(varanids) do not process petroleum based antibiotics, so they are of no use. They recomended sulfa based antibiotics. If I remember correctly.

Letting a varanid take its course leaving the prolapse hanging out, is very dangerous.

I believe the proper proceedure is to clean, disinfect, reinsert, and hold in place. Its actually easy to do and somewhat silly, like using a bandaid to keep the prolapse in. Which as odd as it sounds works well.

Thanks

Hi Frank,

Thanks very much for that.

I never did see it again, only once w/ the baby tortoise. And come to think, Mike did try to push it back in. Ironically, the smoothness and lubrication of the neosporin helped him do that. So maybe that's all it was good for. I want to say we cleaned the area too.. but I don't remember well enough.

I find it very interesting to learn that varanids do not process the petroleum antibiotics. I love to learn information like that.

Many many years ago we had an older baby bearded dragon that had an arm injury. Unfortunately, one of its cagemates bit its arm. It seems baby bearded dragons get a bad rep for this.. but if we were to have applied the same husbandry we've learned- I'm not sure we would have seen that so much. The interesting thing is- his arm looked pretty bad.. Up to a certain point it was dying: it turned hard and black. This all happened rather quickly. I started applying neosporin just for the try and was amazed. His arm regenerated itself. It literally went from hard and black to normal regular skin.

Thanks again ,

Mary