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I have three unrelated females with two being 4 years old and one being 6. None have been bred to this point. My two 4 year olds are around 5 feet and the other is about 5.5 feet. This is my first year breeding easterns, should I be concerned that they are not at least 6 feet long? Most of what I have read has suggested that females be at least 6 feet before breeding. This is somewhat confusing to me since adult indigos typically range in size from 5-8 feet. Should I assume good body weight is more important than length? If so, what is the min. breeding weight for a female?

Thanks in advance for your input

Jason

Hi Jason, we are reluctant to tell you what to do in case it goes sour...So much of what we know is anecdotal, the sample group to small to draw reasonable conclusions. I have always heard to wait until 6', and I recognize a few females tend to barely reach that length. I have heard size is more important than age. However, an egg bound female is a real trajedy, and some say egg bound females tend to be small or young... I would be conservative and wait for them to be 4 years, but that is just based on hear say rumors...let's see what others say. Good luck, Vic

Thank you Vic for your input. I can understand everyones reluctancy to post, but in order to learn more about this species fellow breeders should be more willing to share their knowledge and experiences regarding this species.

In my opinion, it seems that weight would be more crucial to successful breeding than length simply because 6 foot females are not as common as six foot males. Two of my females are 4 years old and are only 5 feet and it may take another 2 or 3 years for them to reach 6 feet. Certainly in the wild males aren't discriminating against sub 6 feet females for fear of egg binding. With thst said, is there an ideal weight females should obtain before breeding?

Another factor that may lead to egg binding is the lack of cool temps during the warmer months. As most know, these snakes are often found in gopher tortoise burrows for protection and also to escape the heat. These burrows can be as much as 7-8 feet deep. Ground temps year round at that depth are roughly 55-56 degrees. How many breeders offer these temps during the warmer months? Maybe these snakes require year round cooler temps in order to properly thermoregulate themselves.

I encourage other experienced breeders to offer their knowledge on this subject. Thanks

Jason

Some lines just don't get very long do in part to all the inbreeding for color. I know of many 5 footers that have bred without incident. I think keeping humidity high will help to prevent egg binding but that's just my opinion. Give Steve Binnig a call. He's got it all figured out.

Thanks Sean for your response. Regarding your comment about inbreeding, does anyone know if the European lines are smaller than our lines. I would have to agree that the high reds of the Euro lines are a result of a thin gene pool.

Anyone else want to respond?

Jason

When I was shopping around this year for babies I got alot of good advice and I learned some breeders on THIS side of the pond breed for color also.

I have heard the same.

Its hard to know the reproductive capabilities of a individual
eastern.At least for me it is. Of three females one has given
me viable clutches three years in a row at 4,5 and 6 years old.
One was the biggest at six feet and became eggbound,first egg
at the vent,her first time breeding.She was 5 years years old.
I overfeed her In the belief that size and wieght transfered
into clutch size.The last female at 4 years and a little over
5 feet gave me 14 eggs with a 100percent hatch rate.
Seth

Great info Seth. Wow, 14 eggs! Thats encouraging to hear that your 5 footers had great success. I have alawys been a little skeptical of the six foot rule regarding females. Do you happen to know the weights of the girls when they were bred? Also did you do anything special during their pregnancies (lighting, feeding, temps, humidity, etc).

Jason

Jason, I reread this with interest, and Seth's experience is indicative of many of our experiences, highly variable and difficult to make conclusions. Your interest in weight is subject to some variables, as in unhealthy fat vs. lean and healthy, but they are the same weight... Like Seth, I have fed females a lot, believing it would equate with rapid post egg laying recovery, minimize calcium "loss", enhance fecundity and egg/neonate size etc. But it has not necessarily been the case, and some very skilled breeders have found "fat" females of many Genera to be poor breeders, so be sure to assess overall health along with weight. Folks I know who have found Drys in the wild state they are powerful and svelte, and usually thinner than what most of us have as captives...Vic