Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok so i have a baby water and i started him off on crickets and meal worms which he seemed to love, then as a treat like 3 weeks later i gave him some pinkies which he absolutely LOVES, in fact he loved them so much when i dumped crickets in there again i noticed they went alot slower, so my question is how would i go about getting him to eat the crickets and meal worms again like he did, i quit giving him pinkies as i have herd there is no real nutritional value in them.

Hi cut a frozen fuzzy mouse in half (lengthways), if it`s too big whole.
Also, try some small whole fish, quail eggs, etc, just whole prey animals..
Can you give some details of how you keep the monitor, and do you have a few photos of the lizard and setup? Thanks!

The whole idea was to get him off pinkies so why would I cut a frozen one in half (not trying to be a smart a$$ or anything as you probably know more than I do) and he sucked them down like it was nobodys business he still won't eat in front of me so I'm thinking he is still in that acclimation period so I don't handle him at all, I only go in the cage a couple times a day to clean out the water dish, he is in a 4x2x2 glass gage with the tops sealed with aluminum foil and only a cut out where his light is, I mist down the cage everyother day to keep the humidity up the cool side of his cage is 86 and the hot side is 95 with the basking spot at 128 I belive last time I checked it, I made a big aluminum plate at work and kept modifying the legs till I got the basking temp right, also he is on cypress mulch right now, I'm trying a few different mixes right now till I get it right (help on what you guys use would also be appreciated) ill try and find the camera to put up some pics and if I dusted the pinkies with miner all would that be enough suppliment?

I use potting soil mix with playground sand for all my box turtles and reptiles. The sand prevents the soil from becoming compacted and potting soil or top soil helps retain moisture. I found this combination out when I started keeping my box turtles. They require loamy substrate... Works for my other reptiles! It's a lot cheaper than anything else, too.

Remember to use playground sand because other type is bad for your animals' health.

And make sure the potting soil has no added fertilizers, because it's not so good if they accidentally ingest them.

What percentage of each do you use?

I don't really measure...but I tend to put more potting soil in the mixture than the sand...maybe 2:1 ratio.

Paradon, again you offer advice NOT BASED ON THE ANIMAL IN QUESTION. Your advice sucks.

While potting soil will not hurt a water monitor, its a friggin pain in the hind end, kinda like you sometimes.

ITS A WATER MONITOR, it will go in the water, get out, and get covered in potting soil, go back in, muddy the water, muddy the cage and make a big giant stinking mess. Its a water monitor. If you ever had one and you put potting soil in with it, YOU WOULD KNOW. You know, experience, which you have Zero of.

But because you have no experience and think a water monitor is a box turtle. You again think you have something to offer. Oh thats right, you just like to talk.

I still wonder why you don't offer advice on box turtles to people with box turtles, oh and box turtles do not require that type of soil either. But then this is not about box turtles.

Paradon, a huge problem with varanids is, people keep using OUT OF CONTEXT information. You know, it works with hamsters so it will work here. What needs to be used is, information that is based on monitors, and then water type monitors, then this type of water monitor. Which would make that information in context to the animal in question.

So please have a good day, and THINK. Its good to think.

What do you use for water monitors? Anyhow, the guy with the water monitor stated that he cleans the water a few times a day, so as long as he has no issue with it, it shouldn't matter TOO much. I've found that all of my monitors enjoy burrowing in a playsand/soil mix, it's worked well for me, and is readily available in cheap, bulk pickup. If he has to clean it several times a day, I would first of all, maybe consider a larger body of water. My Nile is constantly in his water bin, which is about three feet long by two feet wide. You could also throw in a homemade filter, really cheap and effective. I use it in my monitors water and it at least keeps it a LITTLE cleaner. Anyway, that's just what I've done with my Nile.

Your thinking short term and very short term. Which is fine for you.

The advice I offer is for keeping a monitor, for its lifetime.

What your talking about is a constant maintainece problem that only becomes worse and worse, then you get rid of the monitor because its too much work.

I am not interested in telling folks how to keep a monitor for a short period.

Do you actually realize that once your monitor is an adult, its feces will weight 1/2 to 1 pound, hahahahahaha and your filter is going to WHAT??????

You see, the thing about successfully keeping monitors is, they grow up quick. Even the large ones.

I go get substrate from our local washes. You can do that in most parts of our country. Its already washed free of the crap that makes MUD. They also sell similar material at many gravel yards and Quarries, and landscape yards, etc.

...anyways, you mentioned "the wash"? What do you pick up at "the wash"? Are you referring to washed pea gravel or something?

And you don't your animals to drink the same water everyday anyway. I try to change the water for my animals everyday. And the monitors poop in the water as far as I know, so you got to clean that out.

What?!! Are you insane? To actually go outside and gather elements for your captives is crazy! Next thing you're gonna tell us is that you go get "hollow logs" from the the wild as well! Or leaf detritus! My god! think of the germs! The antigens! I ve read on the web that monitors do best on newspaper, pvc climbing structures, they dont really need any sort of hidebox, reverse osmosis water served in kiln sterilized pyrex glassware, a constant 82 degree temp throughout the cage provided by a UV light of precisely 87 watts, placed on top of the screen top of the tank, as well as a small hot rock(remember those, kids?), fed one mouse gut loaded with iceberg lettce, once a week, and handled three times a day to keep it managable. Of course, this is more along the lines of "short term" management.....

Guy

Who said I'm hurt? [chuckle] You wanna say something about me then go right ahead.

I think it's more fun seeing a you nitpicking at someone... It's fascinating! [chuckle]

Yes it is and I will be your huckleberry. Oh and I am not picking on you. Its just that its you that cannot understand that poor information, HURTS monitors. If your good with harming others animals just to keep yourself fascinated, then good on you.

If you are that type of person, that I truly do not like you. How do you not care about animals suffering? so how come you keep giving naive, harmful information to keepers who do not know better??? Those are questions you need to ask yourself. Cheers

Hi
I'm curious what type of sand you have used that has been harmful to your monitors.
Personally I can't make play sand work. Its all fine particles and doesn't holds structures (burrows) well, at least my animals don't burrow in it.
I use paver sand and general purpose sand mixed with topsoil. I have had 4 successful ackie nestings in this mix and it holds a decent burrow, but I still dont think it is quite right yet. And only 4 nestings is not a significant number.
With my animals I have had to continually change mixtures, as I've never been to where the animals are native to I can't see the soil types they use in nature. So I test. I try to keep conditions the same in the cage and test different mixtures, see what they use more.

Hi, read my reply again; I said feed a fuzzy mouse, if too big, cut up!Fuzzies at least have more protein and calcium than pinkies....

My monitors are the same. But I think it's more because meat actually keeps them full for longer than artropods. More calories... And it probably tastes much better than crickets too.

First off, you have a water montior, you know a monitor that gets really really large. And you want it to feed on insects. You need to question that thinking.

Also, whomever told you pinkies are worthless is dead wrong. MIlLIONS upon MILLIONS of reptiles are raised starting with pinkies. MILLIONS and there is no nutritional problems.

Your task is not to get your water back on insects but instead get it on larger prey like mice or rats etc, or like Stefon mentioned, other whole prey items. NOT INSECTS.

If your water is feeding on rodents, it will grow so fast, that adult rodents will be needed within a month or two.

Also, your cage with the lite on top of the cage is a problem, its the amount of air that has to be heated that causes dehydration. You know the distance from the top of the cage to where the animal is. If you put the lite IN the cage, you can use far less electricity(less wattage) and actually heat a smaller area. This wrongs much better for you and your monitor.

Now I will go mess with Paradon again, it seems like thats my job lately, go down and read it. Thanks

Hi.
I'm not sure where you heard that pinkies have no nutritional value, but I dont believe that to be true.
Thousands of corn snakes and other smaller species thrive on a pinkie diet every year.
Pinks do have some bone structure and their stomachs are filled with milk (calcium). Larger mice would definately be preferred, but until your monitor is of a size to eat them, pinks and crickets shoud be fine. I have a baby peachthroat that I feed about 10 pinks to everyday, and it its growing nicely. My ackies are fed pinks occasionally and when they were small I would cut the pinks up, almost mince them, so they could eat.

All that to say, it had not been my experience with the species that I keep, that pinkies are lacking in enough nutrients to support growth until the monitor can be moved to bigger food items.
Besides the ackies I keep, all the other monitors get a primarily rodent diet with crickets as an option. I feed rodents everyday, but there are crickets in the cage all the time if the monitors want to chase something.

Mike W

Dang, FR beat me to it. I should also have stated that I have not worked with water monitors specifically. So far the species I work with are yellow ackies, peachthroats, indicus, and argus.

Good luck
Mike W

I did see that frank addressed this further on but I will as well since murrindini did as well and you kind of blew off his answer.
Waters are my species of choice and have been for almost 20 yrs. I have had both successes and failures but I have learned from the failures.
I seldom if ever feed a hatchling water, insects, I have found in the past that some will take insects but some can't stand them and want vertebrate prey. They start out on pinkies within a few weeks they are big enough to take fuzzies and it goes up from there.
Ignore all the dimwitted savanah keepers on here, they may argue till hell freezes over on what to feed their savannahs, waters eat vertebrates.....well actually they will eat anything they can get in their mouths including a savannah (lol). But in captivity the most cost effective diet you can get is rodents and they do the job just fine.

Hi Calparsoni, I`m with you, my salvators over the years have been fed a whole vertebrate prey diet from the start, some refusing insects of any kind, especially the juveniles (not for the want of offering them). The reason I recommend fuzzies over pinkies is pourely because they`re larger, which means more nutritious (more protein, more roughage etc, etc).
Pinky mice are fine for the smaller species, and reptiles with lower metabolisms,and a less active lifestyle. That`s what`s so different about them; when active, they "operate" a little more like mammals/bird as far as energy needs and usage goes..

I only mentioned pinkys because of what the op mentioned. I have always raised my own rodents so I just usually grab whatever is available that whatever I am feeding is able to fit in it's mouth. It used to be one of 3 species (mice rats or soft furred rats) but I've dropped normal mice from the roster lately. If I end up with abandoned rabbit pups I'll throw them at the bigger monitors as well ( assuming the dogs don't scarf them from me first lol.). I have one big water that will go for bugs and sometimes I will throw some left over crickets at him for mild amusement. Pretty much like you said though I have trouble getting babies to take bugs (not for lack of trying here as well.). Some like them some hate them so I just don't bother. Kind of a pricey meal anyway given how much crickets run these days.

Sorry to go astray from the conversation, but are you talking about the African soft furred rats?

yes

Can I ask where I'd be able to get a hold of some to breed? I'd like to give them a try, but haven't been able to find any around Cali.

Sorry I don't (nor will I ever.....earthquakes....phuc that!) live in california so I have no idea where you would get them there. I came across them several years back. I believe you can find people who sell them on the classifieds here on kingsnake.I would try asking around the ball python forum as well as the ball python people seem to be the ones really into them being a native rodent to africa. Quite honestly they breed better than normal mice in the heat of the summer and everything I feed them to seems to love them. They work better for my snakes size wise but the monitors get some as well.

Thanks! Yeah, I'll look around on the classifieds thanks. I honestly really love rats, and wanted to get some as a pet.

Soft furs are illegal in some states and I think Cali may be one of them. So check around first.

In my opinion, they are a pain in the bum. Yes, they can take more heat, and yes, they drink less therefore you do not have to clean the cages as much, but they do not produce anything close to my mice.

They also take forever to raise up and only produce babies for a relatively short period. In otherwords, they are a pain in the bum and take up space.

But if you LIKE RATS, then you may like these, some are insanely mean, others not, but they all like to box.

plus they are "tit mice" as the females have twice the number of nipples as normal mice, 20. Holy moly. But they don't seem to be able to nurse more babies. Good luck

Thanks, I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on them, but from what I've heard I probably won't bother breeding them as feeders, just as pets for now. I do think rats make great little buddies though. I'll take a look on the fish and game website for the legalities.