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Recovery program for sickly monitor?

AnnaCB Dec 30, 2011 08:23 PM

Hi there.

I picked up a savannah at the request of the local rescue lady.
I've dealt with many lizards before (including larger tropicals, green and rhino iguanas, etc) but have never worked with a sick monitor before.

This guy is maybe 13 inches long, apparently about a year and a half old, and was fed eight crickets or so once a week (!). No mice, no other invertebrates, no supplements. No heat for a 3 month period of time, rare access to water, and a compact fluorescent that wasn't changed during their entire period of ownership.

He had four layers of stuck shed in some places, has flaps of skin and pathetic amounts of fat on his legs; and while he is able to hunt very effectively, he doesn't hold himself up for long periods of time.

My questions for y'all:
-How often/how much is safe to feed without shocking his depleted system? He's been fed a half dozen huge crickets and two very small pinkie mice (for the first time in his life). When do I feed next and how much? I supplemented the crickets, etc.... should I feed him anything else? Carnivore supplement? Eggs?
-What temps would you use for a savannah recovering from neglect who is obviously in pretty rough shape? Humidity higher or lower than normal?
-Anything else I should do for this guy during the first several days? He's been soaked several times, drank twice, and most of the shed has gotten off.

Thanks for any input. He's quite the badass in spite of not being in good shape, I'm definitely rooting for him.

Replies (66)

dekaybrown Dec 30, 2011 10:28 PM

Read over this site for starters....

http://savannahmonitor.org/

Excellent data there.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Dec 31, 2011 07:38 AM

The problem with that site is that it is a diet biased forum.Dehydration is the issue that needs addressing first and husbandry practices that allow the animal to use what it eats most efficiently.There is good info on that site don't get me wrong,but you can get better advice here from FR. Moe

murrindindi Dec 31, 2011 08:33 AM

Hi moe64, I`m 100% in agreement regarding that particular website; they treat Savannah monitors as if they were true "insectivores", which is totally WRONG...
The problem is that people see the website`s name and assume the info must be reliable; whilst some is, some is far from it...

dekaybrown Dec 31, 2011 09:53 AM

To quote Frank from about 30 posts down...

"I do not keep savs"

So if you wish to keep on feeding the WRONG food, go for it..

My Sav does absolutely fine on The Daniel Bennett observed diet.

Why must you continue to insist that the "Gospel" book of savs is not accurate??

Why is that book so highly recommended?? because 200 stomaches do not lie.

We played your games at [url ban], and you ran away with your tail between your legs.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Dec 31, 2011 10:14 AM

I respect Daniel and his work very much!
You CLEARLY haven`t read his and Ravi Thakoordyal`s book on the species; it`s recommended they DO receive vertebrate prey (in.some rodents) in captivity....
Daniel himself also recommends that on his very own website "mampanconservation.org"
(Or have you not visited there, either)???

moe64 Dec 31, 2011 11:35 AM

Oh no ,not this again!Without Supporting the monitor first with proper husbandry ,diet is a mute point was all i was trying to convey.Giving the Sav a enclosure with limited airflow,a proper deep substrate,an appropriate basking temp and options of available temps,humidity and security ,diet is usually less of a concern other than feeding enough to meet their growth and reproductive requirements.Making all these things to work together takes some experience-sounds simple execution not so much.

Can this Sav rebound,it's hard to say-they are built to survive a certain amount of harsh conditions.But can we not agree this is not part of their natural life cycle we do not have to reproduce in captivity.

dekaybrown Dec 31, 2011 12:56 PM

Exactly.. and sav.org has all those issues nailed down perfectly.. Agree with the diet or not.

My Sav is fit, happy healthy 11.5 pounds 39 inches, 5 years old and has done so just fine on invertebrates.

You can feed your lizards whatever you wish..

I'm not here to argue with you, but your ditzing on a site that has very accurate and very detailed husbandry data.

They tell people humid, hot, etc... yet for some reason you felt compelled to say there is something wrong with it.

My boy can run FAST....

Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Dec 31, 2011 08:36 AM

Sorry, there`s some very BAD info there, and for someone with little experience, I would NOT recommend following their advice on diet, in particular....

dekaybrown Dec 30, 2011 10:28 PM

Try this,.
Link

-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Dec 31, 2011 08:51 AM

Hi,
first, I would recommend leaving the heat/light on 24/7 for the time being, obviously, make sure there are cooler/dark places to retreat to.
Basking (surface) temp between approx 50 to 60c (120 to 140f), humidity range between approx 50 to 70% (it might be slightly lower around the basking area, slightly higher in the hides, that`s perfectly acceptable)...
Offer food anytime, once the monitor`s hydrated and heated,he/she will function efficiently..
Can you put a couple of photos up (enclosure and animal)?
I wish you and the monitor all the best, and don`t stop asking questions!

annacb Dec 31, 2011 10:45 PM

I really appreciate the straightforward answer, it's a nice contrast to the philosophical arguments that pop up on EVERY Sav forum...
I know what I am going to feed, I was just asking frequency. And I know NORMAL temps, but not recovery. None of the links really addressed that.

I'll get photos when I can.
He's in a huuuuge glass terrarium (temporary because glass sucks) with all sides blocked off and a plexi lid for humidity, on soil. Four hides, plenty of water. Still tweaking the temps.

Anything else you can think of, let me know.
Again, thank you so much for the problem-specific answer.

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 09:44 AM

Hi again, you probably are already, but I`ll mention it anyway; a multi-vitamin might help, too. The most nourishing foods are what`s best (ALL the t, "nourishing" includes some vertebrate prey, (no matter what some websites may say to the contrary)!
Yes, please put pics up whenever possible...

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 09:49 AM

Sorry, I pressed post message button before I`d finished typing.
I meant to say "ALL the time" (most nourishing foods).... I`m so impatient!!

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 10:28 AM

Now before we go into a full on diet debate: remember we are discussing recovery of a sick animal...

My vet who has a Masters degree in zoological medicine from Cornell and A zoological nutrition masters degree from University of Maryland at College Park, recommends giving Hills prescription diet a/d as a supplement during recovery.

Under no circumstances should any dog food/cat foot be considered as a NORMAL food item for any monitor... However during recovery of a sickly/dehydrated animal, this stuff is packed with nutrients, and is made up of pureed livers.

If you chose to try this, you will need to purchase the food from a vet, and it's not exactly cheap... I have seen it work, it's got a great moisture content, so it aids in re-hydration as well.

If you chose to hammer on my post, I surely hope your level of education and experience can match hers.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 11:06 AM

Hi again, can I ask you to list the ingredients (not to suggest there`s anything wrong).
Also, how long have you actually kept your own Savannah monitor for, just out of interest? Thanks!

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 11:35 AM

Hi Stefan...

Five years, Raised from birth.

Ingredients...

Pork Liver, Turkey Liver, Chicken, pork protein, fish oils, Vitamin c, Vitamin E, thiamine, Calcium supplement, B2 supplements, manganese dioxide and Zinc oxide.

Like I said, this is a prescription item only available at a vet, and Dr. Sara does not treat dogs or cats, she's an Exotic vet.

A masters in zoological medicine would be a waste to treat domestics.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 12:01 PM

So why would this be better than supplying them with freshwater and vitamin/calcium supplemented crickets or pinkies in the conditions Annacb is trying to produce that restricts dehydration?

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 12:09 PM

Rapid recovery...

Figured you would challenge the recommendations of someone with a masters degree in zoological nutrition...

Please share your success stories, I'm quite interested.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 12:10 PM

Hi Moe, I don`t think it`s been suggested it`s better, just another option/item to try...

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 12:24 PM

You know me as Infernalis elswhere.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 12:38 PM

is that somekind of superhero?you'd look good in spandex with your Sav guardian at your side LOL

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 12:42 PM

Not even worth a response...

But what the heck.

Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 12:08 PM

Hi Wayne,
thanks for that, it always pays to ask! Though being an exotic vet doesn`t mean they`re experts on Varanids.. (But I trust this vet`s advise)!
You`v e done exeptionally well to raise your monitor for 5 yrs, and still have him in good health and condition, unfortunately, you`re in a TINY minority, VERY sad, and no end to the slaughter in sight.. The reason I asked was because you didn`t know they had a nictitating membrane, so I thought you were a newcomer(oops)!
The fact is, diet`s no more important to health and longevity than all the other conditions needed to support them...
I think it`s extremely important to remember that there`s more than one way to do these things, to be so narrow minded as to think anyone with a different method that clearly works must somehow be wrong??
Most people who take part in these discussions are virtual beginners, so much misinformation gets passed around as "fact", when it`s nothing of the sort! (Not directed at any specific individual)....
But that`s the nature of the internet, and the hobby...

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 12:18 PM

I knew Chomp had the membrane, but due to the fact I was searching the wrong terms, I could find no data. I was searching "second eyelids"

We spend quite a bit of time locked in eye contact, it's as if he can read into my soul with his intense stare.

Anyways, you are completely right, There are so many web sites filled with complete rubbish, and there are even some that suggest downright fatal practices.

It is nearly impossible to sort through it all and make sense of it...

What really grates on my nerves though, is people who have had zero to very little experience with Savs trying to trump my words, constantly comparing them to other species of varanids...

I think I'm going to stick around.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 12:35 PM

I think you are reading to much into my posts-i disagree with the diet suggested in the Sav site i'm not sure why you are taking this so personally.I have years of experience with monitors unfortuneatly only the last few with an openmind.My advice is based on my learnings and failures and don't need your approval.

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 12:44 PM

lets not forget, I have every word you ever said to me in the past documented...

Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 12:52 PM

So you are pointing out a consistent point i made today and in the past-what are you reading?i said that if you are getting good results with inverts good for you,but rodents were another option!!!!what's so hard to understand

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 01:02 PM

Why you have to be so argumentative..

No reason for it, especially when you chose to contradict yourself at every turn. Why is that?

In much the same fashion as you do not require my approval, nor do I require yours.

So I propose this, let's just agree that we see things differently and move on.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 01:06 PM

i have to apologize,the one reason i left the site dekaybrown was apart of was it dragged me to this level-sorry to the first poster AnnaCB her good question got turned to this infantile discussion which i was apart of and will end my role till the next topic i can add positive feedback for. Moe

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 01:06 PM

Are you talking to me, Moe?? I too disagree with the restricted diet on "savannahmonitor.org", and some of their other advise,too!

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 01:09 PM

sorry i was talking to Dekaybrown

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 01:02 PM

You MUST stick around, you have some (relatively) good results to show and experience to share..How different is that!!

FR Jan 03, 2012 10:48 AM

Thats the problem, that kind of answer, is so out of context to the current level of keeping.

Heres the reality, vets are WAY behind, and for good reason, their business and practice are based on poor methods of keeping, My bet is, there is not one specialist in varanid reproductive medicine In the whole country. Or even any classes in any university that is current with our NOW level of success.

How this relates to you and Cindys recomendation is, with current husbandry methods, this canned food is obsolete.

In otherwords, these canned foods help when conditions are poor and stay poor. But are so not needed with condtions are good.

The same is true for illness, under current known good conditions, Monitors do not get sick. Because current conditions support the immune system.

So with nice folks like Harvey, they search the internet and are comparing their animal to other animals in the same condition and with the same outlook.

What some here and I are attempting to get across to Harvey, is what a actual healthy monitor is like.

Heres the problem, its like first graders being taught by other first graders. The ones learning will find that a very easy class. But if their are taught by high schoolers or college level folks, those same first graders will be challanged and find it much harder to understand.

Back to Vets, nothing against them, but their market and experience is based on failing animals, not on successful animals. More later,

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 10:02 AM

It's not really philosophical,a lot of care of monitors is choice offering,that's the difference between monitors and alot of reptiles.Not that other reptiles don't want choice it seems they can subsist with fewer choices.In the recovery of a monitor,rodents are a good tool.That Dekaybrown has raised a beautiful monitor on invertebrates is a choice that has worked for him.

annacb Jan 01, 2012 02:45 PM

I definitely understand that.

I personally will be offering rodents as well as crickets/roaches/etc.
If I were to try and find appropriate snails for feeding, how would I do that? Are the ones sold in aquarium stores okay? I can't find them easily outdoors here and wouldn't trust them anyway.

Aside from this question, I think I'll be messaging a couple of responders privately if that's okay. The response here has been a bit of a turnoff and I don't relish the idea of being judged for specific choices I make while doing the right thing- seems like that is a likely outcome.

No offense meant to any one person, for sure.

Thanks to all for the input given.

murrindindi Jan 01, 2012 03:08 PM

Hi, yes, the snails they sell in aquarists are fine.
The nature of these websites is such that we ARE judged on almost every word, it`s usually taken out of context, then placed under a microscope to see if there`s anything "they" can find to criticise for the sake of criticising...
Most of the critics are the virtual beginners who`ve done nothing, then decide to "teach" others where they`re going wrong, the result is the mountain of confusion that exists.....

dekaybrown Jan 01, 2012 05:15 PM

Two thumbs up to that.

Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 01, 2012 10:02 PM

This is a photo of my female Bluetail Monitor,that resides in a 10' x 5' x 6.5' cage.Too me it's something of an accomplishment, too premature to celebrate as she has a way to go as they live up to 15 years,she's almost two.Hard work and alot of resources went into her and the other monitors care-so don't be quick to judge this virtual keeper

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 12:51 AM

I'm not...

But your crossing species lines here, like saying a python is just another kind of boa.

Physiology of one species is not identical to the physiology of another.

Apples and oranges. both are fruit, both bear seeds, both grow on trees, both are round, then the similarity stops.

Care of one animal is not going to be absolutely the same as care for another (similar) species.

and if I recall correctly, you were the one who challenged me first, not the other way around.

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly is it better for any animal to defy natures plan and feed them food items that their internal physiology was not specifically "engineered for"???

That concept puzzles me to no end.

I assure you this, when my Sav roams free on my property, Mice are NOT what he is hunting for, not once have I ever witnessed him actively seek out a mouse.

He digs in the dirt for worms, looks under rocks in the creek for crayfish, and peels bark off logs looking for grubs and beetles.

So please tell me the logic behind forcing this animal to consume something that is not what nature intended him to eat??

And please don't insult my intelligence with "so and so said"

Present me with scientific proof. Then I will graciously eat humble pie, and apologize.

The orange stain on his snout is from large orange slugs, a favourite food item, He goes nuts over them...

Does this animal look like he's hunting for mice??
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

RobKnox Jan 02, 2012 09:30 AM

Hello
I am a doctoral biophysicist. My girlfriend is finishing her masters in physiology with a specialization in reptile and amphibian physiology.

You are operating and drawing conclusions based on some false knowledge. Saying their physiology is like apples and oranges is overwhelmingly moronic and demonstrates a large lack of understanding on your part of physiology as a whole. The difference between reptiles and mammals thats almost apples and oranges. The difference between species of varanids is more like the difference between green apples, red delicious apples and pink lady apples for exam. But this is all crap, comparing the two is meaningless.

What you need to be asking is not what does it look like he is hunting here but rather why does he not hunt rodents when they have been PROVEN to be successful with rodents as well. Not that a good invert diet cannot be supplied which allows the animal success but to call an invert diet YOU can come up with in the states a "natural" diet is unbelievably stupid. The closest things we have to what they eat is extremely different from what they eat, you know those apples and oranges you were talking about. Of course I am assuming you do not have illegal african crickets that get up to 4 inches long and you dont have giant african millipedes. Also I assume you dont have an african biodome with all the natural resources your african crikets and giant millipedes can eat so they are exactly as nutritious as ones in nature.

So why do they frequently not eat or even show interest in rodents? Well a good explanation would be rodents are not good prey. They are small, fast and intelligent. They live in borrows and holes that a large bodied varanid like savs would have to turn into large borrows in order to get at a single rodent which may have just disappeared about the back door. Thats a lot of energy used potentially even at an energy loss if they even catch the rodent at all.

Continuing on next post.

RobKnox Jan 02, 2012 09:50 AM

Finally, why do you think nature is so perfect? Humans certainly have benefited by creating habitats very very different from our natural conditions. Do you think our current diets are anything like what our ancestors ate? Dogs and cats are good examples of animals that have been extremely far removed from their ancestors via the domestication process. How about 50 generations of Siberian fox breeding resulting in domesticated individuals which eat almost exclusively wet dog food... What I am getting at is the genetics that best allow animals to thrive in their environment do not necessarily indicate nature is place BEST suited for their genetics. We should be trying to do better than nature at SUPPORTING our animals not restricting them based on flawed perceptions of nature and what it intends. There is a big picture there that nobody on Earth is smart enough to see all at once so all we can do is acknowledge what is PROVEN.

Savs can do well on inverts and/or rodents as long as everything else is right. Time and time again this discussion creeps up and assuming nobody is telling lies that is the ONLY reasonable conclusion to draw, either works as long as you support the animal. There is no perfect right answer here, but if its working use it. Your horrible logic and lack of understanding does not mean your diet is bad, your reasoning for your diet is bad.

1 1=2 because it has been defined as such.
If you say 1 1=2 because the earth is round it does not make 1 1 any less 2 but it does make you an idiot. (This is an ambiguous "you" not directed at any person).

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 10:16 AM

Hi RobKnox,
thanks for bringing a little common sense into the ever confusing discussion. Your explanation works for me!
There`s more than one "specific" diet and method, so long as ALL the other parameters are met.... Sooooo simple, yet soooo hard to get across!!

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 10:36 AM

So let me word it like this..

Would it be safe to say that the husbandry requirements for a Varanus salvator would be the same as Varanus acanthurus??

Because if one were to follow that logic, we would all be keepers of dead or sickly animals.

Look at it like this...

Garter snakes and Mexican king snakes are both of genus colubridae (Colubrids)

However one lives in cooler north American climates, and the other lives in warmer central American climates, The King snake feeds on rodents, The garter snake feeds on fish, amphibians and earthworms.

So are their husbandry requirements the same?? they are both colubrids, so why not keep them in the same exact environment and feed them the same exact foods??

I am well aware that I cannot procure the same exact invertebrates as what Varanus exanthematicus would feed on in the wild, However it is equally ridiculous to consider that mammalian prey would be even remotely in the same category as, Chilopoda, Diplopoda, Coleoptera, Scorpionida, Anostostomatidae or Mollusca.

My animal is quite pleased with his diet, and I won't be changing it any day soon.

The only reason I used apples and oranges, is because some folks (excluding you) have problems understanding words with more that three syllables each.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 02, 2012 10:53 AM

Yes, you have the same principles of care for Acanthurus as for Salvator just on a different scale.Acanthurus because of their size can stick too invertebrates like crickets.Yes ths is contractdictory but since they are smaller an invertebrate diet can be procurred that will meet reproductive and growth requirements,which gets more difficult as the species get larger.

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 11:00 AM

Now the truth is coming to light.. Convenience.

So since I have the resources and can afford to feed my animal his pound a day of invertebrates, I'm an imbecile??

Bottom line is, there are so many obese lethargic Savs out there because uneducated people with no working budget turn to mice as an effort to keep their monitor fed.

Then they should have never chosen one as a captive in the first place.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 02, 2012 11:11 AM

I have not criticized your diet or implied you're an imbecile.Your diet has had positive results for your animal,take the compliment and move on

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 11:27 AM

So what was that superhero in spandex remark all about then??
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 02, 2012 12:12 PM

I'm sorry i made that comment-i didn't know who you were,and didn't know how to respond.I know who you were when you brought up that post from that other site.It wasn't a good experience,but from what i remember you weren't a reason for that.Sorry if i offended you,honestly the comments before the spandex comment we're not directed at you or meant as a putdown. Thanks Moe

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 01:45 PM

For the Chocolate Starfish.

Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 11:20 AM

Quite wrong; there are so many overweight and dead monitors in such a short space of time, because they weren`t fully supported. Surely NOT because they were fed some rodent prey???That`s an excuse, it helps "them" explain the repeated and untimely deaths of their charges... How about the wind direction changed, my sock had a hole in it????
They were effectively given the "death penalty", the moment they were aquired by undoubtably well meaning, but ILL INFORMED individuals, unable to distinguish between reliable advice based on experience and knowledge from the ridiculous assumptions made from circumstantial "evidence" which gets turned into actual fact....
Most studies on wild varanids are merely a "snap shot", a tiny piece of the whole... And besides, that`s the wild, this is nothing remotely like it!!

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 11:27 AM

Moe, V. acanthurus can get to 70cm (28inches), and can quite easily take vertebrate prey, inc.. small sized rodents (or cut up pieces if too large to swallow whole).

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 11:06 AM

Hi Wayne,
I can offer an answer: YES, basically, the husbandry is the same for salvator and acanthurus; they require the same approx temp renge (ambient and surface), a similar humidity range, a whole prey diet, both vertebrate and invert, (inverts moreso for hatchlings in both species). Support to acheive their maximum potential....
So where do you feel there are any great differences?
Asking and(hopefully)answering these questions can help us all, MOST importantly, the animals in our care!!

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 11:12 AM

Great differences would be size, world location and diet.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 11:33 AM

No difference in husbandry as far as diet, temps etc, but obviously enclosure size might just be a little larger for salvator, though acanthurus would use that space, too!
Both species are from similar climes. I`m from one (Oz), spent time in the other..... Location (country) in this case, means nothing.

dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 11:52 AM

Or maybe I did.

I have run out of steam here, the wheels are spinning, yet the train is still parked in one place.

Silence is a virtue that I believe I will now exercize...
Image
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

moe64 Jan 02, 2012 10:07 AM

That was very well stated.If we take a look at Bluetail Monitors from the little we know of their wild diet it does not contain many rodents ,if any, as can be said with other species like Prasinus ,yet they can flourish when fed entirely with rodents(husbandry practices into account)Sure there are differences between species but when we narrow down their preferences they are very much the same.

The only difference between a Sav and a Bluetail-the Bluetail isn't from a drought climate,and will fail far before we see issues of rodent diet obesity from improper husbandry because of complication due to dehydration.Sav's can take improper condition far longer due to their greater reserves.Both eat based on opportunity,but both are capable of utilizing items outside their natural diet.

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 10:19 AM

Hi moe, your answer was well put, too!

PHFaust Jan 02, 2012 07:56 AM

Sorry for the delayed response.

A few of these suggestions will probably get me flack, but here is the deal. You have an animal that is recovering from starvation and need to help slowly nurse its system back.

Keep a very close eye on water consumption. If you do NOT see the animal drinking, while recouping it is very important to also soak the animal. Warm water soaks to start the day will aid in encouraging normal behavior as well as stimulating the animal.

Here is what is gonna tweak people. There are a few exceptionally lovely, high quality dog foods. Now I am not talking alpo here. I use a specific brand, Wysong. I am able to increase water intake by using this diet. I take a few spoonfuls and and mix in more water. This is offered with a few pinks. www.wysong.net/products/aujus-natural-healthy-dog-cat-ferret-food.php I prefer the rabbit. This is offered in recovery. It aids in me offering needed medication as well. The stink of the food is impressive and even a half dead monitor will go nuts.

Offering many small meals will be most helpful. This will prevent issues if the stomach has shrunk because of the starvation. I tend to offer food multiple times of day for the really rough ones. It gives them the chance to absorb more.

Doing rescue for so long, these are a few tips.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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dekaybrown Jan 02, 2012 09:26 AM

I suggested the Hills prescription already.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

PHFaust Jan 07, 2012 05:40 PM

>>I suggested the Hills prescription already.
>>-----

Hey Wayne

I prefer the Wysong because it is meat, organs and no filler. I also have been known to include bone meal depending on the condition of the animal. But I really prefer to stick with solely meat based diet.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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dekaybrown Jan 08, 2012 03:18 AM

Point well taken, I do recall seeing soy protein listed in the other.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

PHFaust Jan 08, 2012 06:01 PM

>>Point well taken, I do recall seeing soy protein listed in the other.
>>-----
>>Regards,
>> Wayne A. Harvey

Yeah quite a food nazi for my dogs. So that transfers to all animals living with me.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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AnnaCB Jan 02, 2012 01:07 PM

I very much appreciate the situation-specific suggestions!

murrindindi Jan 02, 2012 02:04 PM

How`s the monitor doing (I know it`s only a couple of days)?

AnnaCB Jan 05, 2012 03:32 AM

Hi,

The monitor has perked up immensely.
He was subjected to soaks twice a day just until I could see that enough shed was off that I didn't have to worry about his tail or toes being subjected to tissue death.
He is now being left the hell alone

He is basking/hiding now, when before he'd basically stick his nose down and stay where he was put.

He is also eating quite voraciously. He defecated several times in the first few days, I am betting it was old food that hadn't been digested due to ridiculously low temperatures before; as he hadn't seen food for a while up until I picked him up.

While I have grown to like this guy, I harbor no illusions- considering his sucky start to life, I'm sure he's got internal damage or will be more susceptible to issues down the road.

Right now, however, he seems as content as is possible under the circumstances. I base that assumption on the fact that he's basking, eating, hiding, and being a hissy jerk- all good signs, in my opinion.

Thanks for asking!

dekaybrown Jan 05, 2012 07:06 AM

"Right now, however, he seems as content as is possible under the circumstances. I base that assumption on the fact that he's basking, eating, hiding, and being a hissy jerk"

That is great news.

-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Thamnophis.co
Thamnophis dot net

too many darn snakes to list anymore...

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