Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello folks,

This is my FIRST re-posting. (I think I initially posted in wrong section)

I recently nabbed a 70 Gal Oceanic Lizard Lounge Terrarium (36" long 25" high and 18" deep) for FREE. My goal is to use this for a large adult King Snake, haven't narrowed down the species yet... but figured to go a nearby Herp convention and see whats out there. The glass is in great condition and I plan to sterilize the heck out of it before putting it to use. It appears to have tint/or some thermal layer on side/back.

My tank looks like THIS but with only 6 vents in back.

Question #1: What method of cleaning would you recommend to sterilize it? Water/Bleach then rubbing alcohol afterwards?

The tank did not come with the glass lid top that I keep hearing the Oceanic Systems Inc. used to make for them.... discontinued? But got a basic wire mesh screen instead. The only major problem with the tank are the vents. 10 circular vents (2 on sides & 6 on back) with one small hole for wiring. The vents are in bad shape, one missing and several more broken, with others damaged. I figured its best to replace them all.

Question #2: Where do I find spare parts (vents) for this discontinued product?

Question #3: Should the vents be sealed up and use the top as full screen ventilation? Will heating it be an issue for King Snakes? Or should the top be retrofitted with plexi-glass and with pilot drills for top ventilation then then replace vents? Other suggestions?

One thought I had was to create a PVC tube cave connecting the back two vents/ kinda like a hamster tubing system but just simpler and design it so the tube can unscrew from outside if need access. Any thoughts/comments on this?

As for heating/lighting was planning to use flexiwatt or heat pad with thermostat for one end with red spot heat lamp and leave the other side alone. Then have a strip of UV lighting, whats the cheapest I can get these for? Will there be any issue with the Plexi-Glass melting or something like that when used with heat lamps/UV lighting? With this size tank i'm at a loss for what the proper lighting/heating I should go for.

I'm open to feedback/suggestions.

Last question: What type of King Snake do you think would fare best in this environment.

Thanks for reading and ur inputs!

David

Q1 when i clean, i use a 5-10% bleach solution and scrub really well, rinse with pure water, windex the glass/plastic, let air dry for 30ish min, then add bedding, bowl, snake.

Q2 no clue

Q3 you should do everything in your power to make the cage escape proof. If it's even remotely possible to get out, the snake WILL do it. no cracks, nothing loose, no gaps, etc... for most kings heating will be very easy... small heat pad, flexwatt, or heat lamp. give them a cage that is mostly in the lower 70s but with access to an area around 88.

LQ that is a very big cage... almost too big. but a large eastern/chain king or a big florida king would look very impressive stretched out in something like that. Its rare, but sometimes snakes will feel insecure and not feed if they are in a large open cage so a small snake might not do well. regardless of what you put in there, provide a snug hide box or two.

Yeah I wouldn't stick a small snake in there. I was planning to get an adult King and have seveal hides plus large branches/stumps/fake plants for ground cover.

See my other recent post re temp issue I'm facing since its housed in my basement with a temp of 64 which is perfect for me but not so for the snake.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1961228,1961681

I'm wondering is there a such thing as spreadsheet/stats sheet comparing the room temp and its impact on the reptile cages?

David

Q1: 5% bleach solution will be fine for the initial cleaning, no rubbing alcohol needed unless there are stains you are trying to remove. When you have an animal, look online (Bean Farm, Big Apple for example) for cleaners that are safe with the animal inside the cage.

Q2: Use a humid hide for any kingsnake (plastic food storage container with a hole in the side/top and filled with slightly damp sphagnum moss, place partially over the heater) and the venting issue is not an issue. Top, side, doesn't matter. If you can't find spare parts for the side/back vents, then don't use them.

Q3: Explained above. Whatever is easiest for you or you have parts for. Kings love PVC pipe at ground level. I don't know what they would do with it elevated like that, but try it? Other types of snakes would use it, like baby carpet pythons.

Flexwatt is the only heater you need for kings. Air temps, as long as not too high, are not much of an issue for kings. So you can save money and just use Flexwatt.

UV is not needed we are always told, but it will not hurt, and who knows, maybe a little is a benefit. It will provide a light cycle if nothing else. Up to you.

Q4: You like biggger, hungry kings? Then a Florida or Eastern king is great. You like mountain kings? Then an Arizona mtn (pyro or knoblochi) would be great. A desert Cal king is always a classic. With a cage that size, anything king will be fine.

Thanks! Will look into your suggestions.

One other thought I had was that since I'm housing my tank in the basement which is usually at 64 degs year round is to some tile above the area where the UTH to help retain/distribute heat. I'm noticing my experimental tank (20 gal) screen top definately lets the heat out with two lights (red heat and white) along with a 10-20gal rated UTH, temps on the cold side are around 68.

But when I covered half of the screen with syrofoam as a test it seems to raise the cool side to 73-74. This shows I'll definately need to put some sort of covering most likely plexi glass over half to 2/3 of the tank and have some vent holes drilled in.

Another thought I had... wonder if its bold to attempt the following post on the 70 gal.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77387

My thinking is I could have the advantage becusae in the post folks say the challege is heat and only limited to UTH but with my tank it already has holes all over it so many can be used as vents/or blocked off. Then have one of the 3 inch holes fitted with a ceremic like base for the heat lamp and have a slate tile or two over the UTH area. But I'm unsure how to fit some sort of guard over the lamp when its in the tank with the snake....

Thoughts?

Again thanks for reading my post.

David

I see you already experimented - this is good. Covering the tank top except for a small vent area does wonders for keeping heat in. Also, your 64-68 deg background temp is perfect for mountain kings and even Cal kings. So you could keep one of those and not be concerned about the cool air temps. In the wild, these animals, when not basking, seek out temps below 70 deg, so your setup would be ideal. Wish I had that!

Perhaps for a big Florida king you might want to add more heat. I'll describe that at the end of the post.

That aquarium door idea is very clever. I've seen that done once using real glass with hinges glued on and the stationary piece siliconed onto the aquarium frame, but Lexan is certainly a great alternative.

I like your idea of using a ceramic socket in one of the vent holes, assuming the door idea so the vent hole is on top. I would use a compact fluorescent bulb and not bother covering it. Then you could adhere a piece of Flexwatt to the back wall (outside) and that will provide additional heat to the floor heat. No heat bulbs are really necessary, and you eliminate ultra hot surfaces and worrying about covering bulbs and such. Then deploy your front-opening door and you are good to go.

The myth is that air temps need to be really warm, and that is not true with many types of kings. I thing a mountain king or a Sinaloan milksnake would thrive in your basement, and you would only need one undertank heater like a 1ft piece of 11-inch Flexwatt max and that is it. If you want a Florida king, just add a 2ft piece of 11-inch Flexwatt to the back wall and you will have more heat. Pretty easy setup that way. Then your light bulb can be a compact fluorescent so as to not worry about heat from above. That setup described should provide plenty of heat for any kingsnake.

Pic below shows (barely) a milksnake basking against a heater on the back wall of the tank. Kings and milks are very good at using mass temps to warm up. Air temps do not mean as much to them.

This is great and very helpful info.

Funny you mention a Sinaloan Milk Snake which we just got Phil last week and he’s on the mainfloor in an exo terra model: Natural Terrarium Mini/Tall 12” x 12” x 18” (WxDxH) which is just a short term solution since he’s a baby. We plan to transfer him to the test 20 gal cage with 3 hides throughout. I borrowed the heat lamp for the test and all he has now is the UTH and the ReptiSun 2.0 UVA only during day time. He seems to be more mobile but upstairs is hotter (73-80) with fireplace going in the other room etc and I’m trying to get him relocated.

Best source for buying Flexiwatt at lowest price? How does this compare to the ZooMeds?

When you suggest compact fluorescent, are you referring to something similar to a ReptiSun 2.0 UVB or regular compact one from Home Depot/Lowes Hardware store? No concerns of the Kings constricting it/ripping it out? Maybe I’ve watched too many Boa/Python/Anaconda movies

Regarding the front opening terrariums DIY project:

Thought about this some more… since the base and the front glass are the only non-tinted surfaces it would mean the back (with 6 holes) would need to be facing down so the front is at the top giving clear view of whats going on in the terrarium. Which means that leaves the two sides to be avil (two 3” holes ea side) for lighting and venting and use some of the front door as a vent as well for circulation if needed.

So the lighting in this situation would be in a horizontal position. For example use one hole on each side as a vent. Then dedicate the other hole on both sides as a light, one compact fluorescent light that you had in mind and the other on to be a compact florescent red light (from lowes/homedepot) just to see them at night?

You were saying use a ZooMed UTM plus flexiwatt on the back side? Or would this be two flexiwatts one under and one at the back?

Another test I did for the 20 gal tank… I put my digital probe right on the glass in center of the UTH ZooMed Brand… and got a whooping 117 deg after 15 min. But when I put the probe just resting on top of the Aspen shavings (1.5”-2” thick) it read to be only 77deg (with spot lights off). Is this bad? So I’m now testing out a 12” tile slate with the rough side up (waffle side) and the smooth side in close contact with the glass. After 2.5 hours its now reading 104 (with the probe on top of the slate and aspen shavings over it) so will monitor that some more. Any thoughts on using a slate tile over the glass UTM? Right now I just have one piece but suspect I could add another and leave a 6 inch gap on the cool side or have the gap between the two slates. Am I wasting my time here with the tile? Guess my thinking was trying to replicate nature a bit by having a slate like feature with the heat distributed opposed to heat directly on glass which isn’t found in nature other than littered beer bottles .

Are snakes smart enough to avoid the super hot spots? Or do they allow themselves to burn like some lizards I’ve heard happen to since some don’t have a good sense on their bellies opposed to their back?
All I had for now.

Thanks for your tips/insights.

David

Look in the classifieds at kingsnake.com under heaters. Some suppliers will attach the electrical cord to the Flexwatt for you prior to shipping. I recommend this until you get good at attaching. Price is about the same from many suppliers. ZooMeds get hot. A better heat pad is Ultratherm. See the Bean Farm for those. Pretty much just like Flexwatt but already fabbed and sealed better. A really good choice for anyone.

You need to use a controller. Cheapest is a lamp dimmer. Next cheapest is an ON/OFF thermostat sold for herp applications. Most expensive but best is a proportional controller. They are in the classifieds as well on kingsnake.

The ReptiSun is a good bulb. If the bulb is horizontal, chances are the snake will climb on it at some point, and if the snake is big, then it can potentially break the bulb. I've never seen that happen, and it probably won't happen, but I guess it could happen.. So how to cover a horizontal bulb? A mesh conopy and magnets maybe? I don't know. IMO bulbs should not be accessible to the snake..

Tile is great over a heater, I do that alot. But a thick layer of aspen can act as an insulater, making the glass very hot. A thin layer is better. I place tile - slate is great - over the heater and spread a little substrate around the tile but not much over the tile at all. Works.

>>You were saying use a ZooMed UTM plus flexiwatt on the back side? Or would this be two flexiwatts one under and one at the back?
>>
Yes. One under the cage floor - an 11x11 heat pad is plenty, and one taped to the rear wall vertically - that one can be 11x17 or whatever.

A temperature controller is crucial. Even a lamp dimmer is fine if the air temp in the room stays fairly constant. Kings are very good at thermoregulation but a choice of 110 deg or 68 deg with nothing inbetween is not good. That is why it would be best to ensure the tile top is in the 82-85 deg range, and only a temperature controller can do that.

Got some good data to work with now. Seems like with the background room temp of 64 deg these are the following results...

1. Direct on glass with aspen covering = 117 deg
2. Top of aspen bedding (1.5" = 76.9 deg

3. Direct on Ceremic tile with aspen = 111 deg
4. Top of aspen bedding but with light layer (.25" = 83.7 deg
5. Almost bare ceremic = 81.6 deg
6. moved the aspen bedding away from the core center of the hotspot (with some remainingon the ouside area of the tile = 80.5 deg

Havn't used the lamp dimmer that I got for 10 bucks at homedepot yet.

Thanks for the tip on the flexiwatt sources... Just looked up one vender and appears I could get 3 feet of 11" with 2 kits assembled and shipped for $25. Thats cheap! Wish I knew that before buying my UTH oh well... Said must use with thermostat but could a lamp dimmer be used, mine is rated up to 300watts.

So you have the flexiwatt with tile on top of it and that works fine for you? Why the back flexiwatt taped up vertically? I guess I was thinking of 11" by 1.5ft bottom running along the back and the other one along the back horizontally so the edges align up with each other.

Mind me asking what type of reptile collection you have?

>>Thanks for the tip on the flexiwatt sources... Just looked up one vender and appears I could get 3 feet of 11" with 2 kits assembled and shipped for $25. Thats cheap! Wish I knew that before buying my UTH oh well... Said must use with thermostat but could a lamp dimmer be used, mine is rated up to 300watts.
>>
Yes, a lamp dimmer is a controller - a manual controller, but a controller nonetheless. Just make sure you check the basking spot temp from time to time so you can adjust the dimmer setting.

>>So you have the flexiwatt with tile on top of it and that works fine for you? Why the back flexiwatt taped up vertically? I guess I was thinking of 11" by 1.5ft bottom running along the back and the other one along the back horizontally so the edges align up with each other.
>>
I meant a piece of flexwatt or other heat pad taped to the outside back wall of the tank, horizontal is fine. I meant the wall is vertical. This helps with air temperature and gives the snake more choices inbetween your underfloor heat and no heat. Just creates more gradient. I would keep your undertank piece about 1/3 or 1/4 the length of the tank. You can cut Flexwatt any length you want but you must seal the cut edges with electrical tape. Cover all exposed silver and black traces.

>>Mind me asking what type of reptile collection you have?
Spotted python, Cal kings. Not alot anymore. Still excited about them though!

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm gonna have to think about the flexiwatt a bit more since the holes are now at the bottom of the tank and if I cover them with plastic caps they might get in the way and overheat/melt. So might need to cut out wood discs to fill in where the UTH goes.

I think I might have found a good light setup that can use my side holes, have it vertical and covered by a jar. LINK

A lot of tinkering and planning to just get the design right without being wasteful, my wife wouldn't be too happy about me being wasteful.

After that has been nailed down then will order my flexiwatt items since I might need to do a bulk order cause I have another project slowing coming together to build a rack of maybe 4-5 maybe 6 10 gal tanks using the Front Opening Aquarium design. What I've noticed is that it actually increases the foot print from 2sq ft to about 2.4sq ft.

I know at least two will have a Rosy Boa and a Thayeri King variety. Any others that you know of that would do well in a modified 10 gal tank environment? If you have any input/insights about the Rosys and Thayeris i'd welcome it.

My son would love these set ups and cool thing it gives him an up close view and ability to study/understand these beautiful creatures. I am also having a couple of modified 10 gallons out in the garage for him to use as a part of his "catch and release" program of garter/ribbon/rat/worm snakes and keep it separate from our house pets.

David