Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Another litter has been layed by Gulf Coast Reptiles (Chris and Sheila McQuade) from their co-dom hypo line. When they produced the first one people were skeptic about the true genetics of this morph. Well another has been produced from different hypo parents but from the same line of course. With small first litters and bad odds it is nice to see another white gem come from this project. The odd thing is that it appears that this may be similar to the retic and ball python lucy's that come from co-dom hypos that have black eyes and red pupils and may have random yellow blotches as this one has a bright yellow blotch behind it's head. Enjoy the pic and huge congrats to GCR.

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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Fantastic looking! So any photos of the sire/dam since we know they're hypos? or photos of the rest of the litter?

Exceptional achievement from Chris and Sheila. They are helping take Amazons to the next level. No matter what the jealous folk that demand to know the exact details of the parents say, this is awesome. They have already started to sell proven line hypos, now we know that they are carriers for leucistic. All that needs proven now is that leucistic to normal throw all hypo, and that hypo to normal throws hypos and normals.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

>> No matter what the jealous folk that demand to know the exact details of the parents say, this is awesome.

Dr Booth, you know I highly respect you (or at least I hope you do!) but just because people would like more information doesn't mean they are jealous. I *am* excited for it, there are so few proven morphs in the amazon world; I personally would like to see more info about the inheritance (yes, photos), that would really get me excited and actually consider spending money on something, not knowing anything about the project makes it look like they have something to hide. I would love to know more.

take care,
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Not jealous in the slightest and I have said for a while now that after seeing the animal in person at Daytona that I know 2 things about it. One it is not a lucy and 2 it is a lot cooler that it is not a lucy because the other colors that are bleeding into the older animal make it more interesting to me than a pure white snake would be. Now you can defend them releasing untested genetics and mislabeling them but the reality is there is a ton of work still to do with the line and the first thing would be to breed to something other than a yellow... unless they already did that and we don't know because they have not released any info. All sibs at Daytona were yellow and since they had them out on the table listed as sibs they are not hiding it but they are shooting themselves in the foot by not communicating to the ATB community.

If we agree that the base trait is hypo then this animal could be a super hypo but since there are other colors including black flecks on the other animal it is NOT a hypo.

Jason

*should read "NOT a lucy"

Haha

Jason

>>but they are shooting themselves in the foot by not communicating to the ATB community.
>>

Exactly.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org
www.amazon-alliance.com

If they are going to put a 20,000 dollar price tag on their snakes, then they should have no problem taking the time to share a little information about it. As it stands they don't even take the time to post their own pictures.

Beautiful snake and huge congrats to GCR.

I really wish those guys would open up and participate in the online community. It would be in their best interest. All their incredible projects would get exposure and be more marketable. They have already sold some hypos, so it won't be long until others are producing some of these white "super-hypo" babies. When that happens, the breeders with the fanciest website and strongest online presense will be the name most associated with the white super-hypo ATBs, not the originator of the line. People will refer to the white ATBs as being developed by some fancy "super bling reptiles" after "some other guy produced the first one".
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org
www.amazon-alliance.com

I will try to respond to several points brought up in this thread. First about the animal being an actual leucistic. I have stared at the original lucy more than anyone (even more than Chris) and the only color and pattern that can be seen is the underlying organs that you can see through the skin. It is pure white. Now as far even if it did have some pattern that itself would not make it not a leucistic. The scientific definition of the leucism trait is the reduction of all layers of color completely or in part of the display animal. It does not specify deletion of all color just the reduction and furthermore it does not have to be completely reduced. The perfect example of this would be the piebald gene, it is a form of incomplete leucism. Also to tie this trait into other reptiles, look at the lucy retics, burms, and ball pythons. None of them are solid white with no trace of pattern and are accepted as leucistics in the reptile world. Another point brought up is that Chris and Sheila should be coming on here and posting their own stuff and updating us with all they have going on. I agree, and disagree. First they run a large breeding operation working with animals from pink bellied side-neck turtles to alligators all with only 1 other employee. They wake up at 7am and are lucky to be done with their animals by 9pm. During boa and ball python breeding/baby season add another 2-3 hours to that total easily. They devote their time to their animals and what very little spare time they have, they try to spend it with each other, sleeping and rarely with their friends (I have to make appointments it seems to even talk on the phone, lol). Even Chris would like to spend more time on here (but he doesn't have the time and isn't the most computer literate, lol) and that is why he gets pics to me and lets me put the info out here for you all. I am thankful that Chris allows me to post the pics and info for everyone, but I guess I am in the vast minority.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I've seen Chris & Sheila's facility in person during an impromptu visit. It looks like ALOT for 2 or 3 people to manage, but the place is well taken care of and is very clean. Every animal I saw looked healthy and happy. My jaw hit the floor when I saw their tree boas, but they have many more animals that also take alot of work. You can tell they really pour their lives into the place and they probably have very little time to stop and post detailed information about their boa projects.

Josh, I'm glad you are able to help them with this. You might want to encourage them to take a few hundred bucks and get a simple website put together. Heck, even registering a domain name for $10/year and forwarding it to their GCR Facebook page would be a good start. Their web presence is very slim right now and I agree with the previous poster about getting their name recognized so they can maintain a claim on that hypo line.

WOW! That is still a one awesome project!! I remember seeing this stuff posted up last year when the original lucy was posted. This all seems like Deja vu to me and I still find it hilarious how jealous others are!!!!

I know some people have to be the biggest and best and have huge egos. Apparently the same is true with snakes!!! Monopolies are bad, not competitive and unfair, or atleast thats what I was taught in school.

I'm really happy for GCR and hope to see huge things from them in the future. Just because they have no interest in participating in the political/advertising online scene, their hard work doesn't deserve to be discounted. Maybe they don't like the internet, maybe they don't like dealing with annoying people on a daily basis. Maybe they actually spend time focusing on their animals which they are obviously dedicated to. Maybe they don't even have to bother with the nonsense on the internet because their animals are that nice and in such high demand.

Either way, congrats to GCR. I am happy that you take the time to share this information for them!

Take care!
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Ike Lightner
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Small, private, hobbyist level collection of SPOILED breeders, hold-backs, and future breeders. Working with 5.8 high end, captive-bred animals from well known bloodlines. Currently focused on:

-Hypomelanistic BRBs
-Striped BRBs
-HIGH Orange & Red BRBs
-Trophy JCPs

4.7 BRBs - "Dugo, Sultan, Diego, Nando, Roxxy, Lucille,
Rasheena, Liddia, Ireena, Juitta, Brazitta"

1.1 JCPs - "Truman & Tammara"

I don't know, but I would imagine that a serious buyer would be told some detailed info if they really asked. Why should they be forced to tell just anyone their secrets? Buy a $20K snake and I somehow feel like they'd open up a little. Maybe I'm wrong though?? Wouldn't be the first time!
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Ike Lightner
____________________________________________________________

Small, private, hobbyist level collection of SPOILED breeders, hold-backs, and future breeders. Working with 5.8 high end, captive-bred animals from well known bloodlines. Currently focused on:

-Hypomelanistic BRBs
-Striped BRBs
-HIGH Orange & Red BRBs
-Trophy JCPs

4.7 BRBs - "Dugo, Sultan, Diego, Nando, Roxxy, Lucille,
Rasheena, Liddia, Ireena, Juitta, Brazitta"

1.1 JCPs - "Truman & Tammara"

This might be why folks are asking questions, the Leopard is a simple recessive morph, not co-dom and there is no super all black form as indicated "it is believed" there was just a black baby that later developed normal colors of a leopard after a few sheds. This is a known morph that they are misrepresenting. Maybe some discussion with other folks would help them...

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=33&de=919356

I must be super jealous because I understand the genetics. Yeah that is it...

Jason

>>This might be why folks are asking questions, the Leopard is a simple recessive morph, not co-dom and there is no super all black form as indicated "it is believed" there was just a black baby that later developed normal colors of a leopard after a few sheds. This is a known morph that they are misrepresenting. Maybe some discussion with other folks would help them...
>>
>>http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=33&de=919356
>>
>>I must be super jealous because I understand the genetics. Yeah that is it...
>>
>>Jason

Yeah, the "super leopard" theory was laid to rest long ago.

The jealousy thing really tickles me. I've read all the posts and haven't seen any jealousy. I see a lot of ATB enthusiasts wanting to see more and hear more. Is this a bad thing?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org
www.amazon-alliance.com