Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm sorry, but I'm a total newbie when it comes to breeding snakes and I was wondering if there is a guide out there that a newb like me can understand. Can anyone explain to me or post a link with an easy-to-understand guide on snake breeding and the morphs so I know what I'm doing when breeding snakes. I'd also like the same for California Kingsnakes since I'm going to attempt breeding designer Jungle Corns.
I'd like a link to a guide or (preferably free) e-book for corn and cal. king snake breeding for beginners.
Thanks in advance!

-Arachnobaron

Forgot to mention, but it'd be absolutely lovely if the guide had pictures!

Cool,...in my opinion, breeding rule #1 would be to remember that it is much more beneficial and far more responsible to the mainstream hobby and the other countless snakes in other people's collections to breed cornsnakes to cornsnakes, and Cal. kings to Cal. kings, and any other type to it's same species/subspecies....be it a normal or a genetic morph. As time goes by you will learn that crosses and hybrids that are not obvious later on when they have varying percentages of either parent's outward look (phenotype) many of those will simply dilute and infect other collections around the country as they are sold and distributed around the country and bred to whatever kind of snake these other people think they "seems" to best represent at any given time. How about thinking of breeding some of the countless corn morphs or Cal. king morphs out there in the hobby. There isn't any need to make your very first venture into the herpetocultural arena a huge botch.

If you don't understand this right now, this is very understandable, but that is really going in a very opposite and counter-productive direction when you could easily go the other way and produce some very interesting authentic and genuine types of snakes that won't be frowned upon by many folks in the hobby. The fscination with breeding two opposite types of snakes together is mo big deal at all. What is much more interesting and rewarding is producing some awesome and possibly very different REAL STUFF you can be very proud of.

I am stating this simple advice from having over 45 years of experience in the hobby with countless thousands of snakes owned, worked with, and bred.

Now there are generally two to three types of hobbyists.

1) The people that are all for crossing and hybridizing anything.

2) The people that don't really care either way.

3) The people that are adamantly against it so that others in the hobby can enjoy real species/subspecies without having to wonder what the heck their snakes really are. The way I see it is what make the problem even worse than it already is.....and believe me....it is absoluterly RAMPANT and has been for many years already...

I would say go get some decent inexpensive books to read on corns, and another inexpensive one on Cal. kings, and in the meantime go to this link and check out some cornsnake types, them google up some Cal. king sites as well. You can also sell either seperate type of snake much more readily than you can sell a crossed hybrid snake too. There will be plenty of people that will not like my advice, maybe even you too, but there are far more in the hobby that know what I mentioned is an absolute fact.

Anyway, here are just some of the countless types you could work with if you wanted to........many other types in the menu on the left as well.

For understanding recessive genetics, simple do a google search with key words..."snake genetics" and zillions of hits will appear. For some other Cal. king morphs, check out one of my friend's sites........

lonesomevalleyreptiles.com

colubrid morphs

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

There are plenty of cool morphs in both of those species. There is nothing good that can come from hybridizing. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings(it seems to with some people) but there is no other way to say it.
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Gerard

"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I agree with the both of ya'!!
Jeff

Others have made good posts, and have been completely respectable, combined with many, many years of experience, and a realistic outlook on the whole picture.

If you are wanting to breed, I would at first say congratulations! It is a very rewarding and totally exciting experience, and I commend you for it!!

And speaking of rewarding, the rewards of creating hybrids and actual, real snakes ( in regards to an actual species being propagated ) is like comparing a 99 cent frozen pizza to a killer, homemade pizza or one that comes from an exceptional restaurant. The product, quality that arises from the hard work, and the experience, all go together. Hybrids do absolutely nothing positive for the herp hobby, except for a feeling of excitement, which, like other human feelings, can linger about and then dissipate. Short lived and does not create other, pure snakes for the species to survive in captivity.

You know that excitement you are feeling now? Why not help a new herper in the hobby, in the future who wants to breed, enjoy exactly what you are enjoying, which is the newfound excitment and joy of having actual, real snakes, and not frankensnakes? Genetic pollution in snake lines is nothing to be proud of, and someone always ends up getting shafted, when they think they are getting something pure, and then, after the eggs start to hatch, they are sorely let down.

All I am saying is consider the big picture of creating jungle corns, vs. creating the pure goodness of allmighty corns and kings. It is a feeling like no other, and something you can be proud of yourself in accomplishing, when you look back years later.

There are so many cool morphs of corns and Cal kings, it is hard to even consider where to start!!

All my opinion, my friend.
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Genesis 1:1

You would be better off posting this question on the hybrid forum too.

Research both sides of the issue before you decide what to do.

A
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1.0 normal BP Nicodemus
1.0 BP Moufasa pos vanilla, fire, cinny
0.4 Cal Kings 3 alb 1 het Dora Queen Ace Pearl
2.0 Alb Corn Bizaar Elixir
0.0.1 Rev Alb Nelsons Oden

"You would be better off posting this question on the hybrid forum too. Research both sides of the issue before you decide what to do"

I wasn't aware that there was another valid or logical side to the issue. But of course that never stopped anyone from pseudo-justifying why they continue to do it. If you mean that it seems to attract a different niche group into the hobby, then sure. But nothing beneficial or positive can ever come of it. If getting more people interested in herpetoculture also involves the tainting and compromising of many authentic types that are still out there, then what "good" is that doing for the hobby?. That would be like getting a bunch more people involved in the classic car hobby and have them all bolt-on parts from other cars and attempting to say they are more revered because of it. All they really did was ruin a nice authentic car in the process...

The way I see it, someone really only has two choices,...to help, or to hurt. The people that are only concerned with producing whacky colored/patterned crosses, and really don't care about what those in turn are ever bred with down the line to "whatever" from being unidentifiable and have had their identities lost only help perpetuate the "hurt" aspect. I see so much un-known crap distributed everywhere now days that it is just ridiculous, and it all stems from not caring and/or not knowing what the heck these people even have and are breeding. This is the actual reality of it. Whether some want to acknowledge this though is an entirely different story altogether.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

What is logical and valid is a matter of opinion.

Every one has the right to their own.

Don't bash every hybrid, or hybrid producer. Mules are extremly useful and responsible hybrid producers who properly lable their animals are not the problem. If people who produce hybrids keep them all, or they just end up as a pet never to breed then you don't have to worry about them ever "poluting" other snakes.

One could point out that you "purists" could take snakes down the same path as many dog breeds that suffer many genetic falts in "pure breds".

I have had 2 "pure" snakes suffer cancer and are now gone. Instances of cancer are higher in inbred populations like you see in white lab mice. I had a white lab mouse as a pet and she developed cancer too.

There is always another side to everything. Keep an open mind.
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1.0 normal BP Nicodemus
1.0 BP Moufasa pos vanilla, fire, cinny
0.4 Cal Kings 3 alb 1 het Dora Queen Ace Pearl
2.0 Alb Corn Bizaar Elixir
0.0.1 Rev Alb Nelsons Oden

.

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

First, I agree with DMong's post.

For breeding corn snakes, you would want to buy Kathy Love's Corn snakes: a comprehensive owner's guide and Pritzel's The cornsnake morph guide.

For breeding California king snakes, you would want to buy Perlowin's The common kingsnake. Markel's Kingsnakes and milk snakes is also good, I believe. I am not aware of a guide to king snake morphs. I get most of my information on them from breeders' web sites.

Understanding morphs requires understanding genetics. Pritzel's Genetics for Herpers is good, as is Schaum's Introduction to Genetics, by Elron and Stansfield. Neither is particularly expensive. Miller's A survey of genetics is free for downloading from http://www.ringneckdove.com. Most of the genetics web pages written by herpers more or less garble the genetics.

By the way, none of these sources will tell you how to hybridize corn snakes and king snakes. There is danger to the corn snake in such an endeavor because California kings eat other snakes (among other things).

I totally forgot I posted this topic.
Since I've posted this thread, I lost partial interest in Jungle Corn Snakes. I have nothing against hybrids themselves. After all, the Domestic Cat is a hybrid between African Wildcats and European Wildcats. (I also believe there is some Asian Wildcat in there) There's also the new addition of Serval in there now due to the new breed "Savannah Cats".
I do, however, take to note "genetic pollution". If I ever do breed Jungle Corns, I will sell them under that name and would move for breeders to breed Jungle Corn with Jungle Corn and not make a genetic mess. Again, kind of like the domestic cat. The domestic cat is only bred with other domestic cats and not other cats.
Anyway, like I've said, I've really just lost interest in Jungle Corn Snakes period, as well as the California Kingsnakes, and I just want to stick with pure Corn Snakes. I have plans to possibly breed a Corn Snake that resembles the Yellow rat Snake. (In irony of the corn snake's other name, the Red Rat Snake) (I do believe breeding this look-alike would involve Caramel Corn and Stripe Pattern mixing)
I'm also intrigued in breeding corn snakes that have colors and markings that resemble other snakes in general.
I'm mainly interested in Butter Corn Snakes, and I plan on obtaining a Caramel Corn and an Albino Corn so I breed the two.

Also, does anyone know what an Albino Charcoal Corn Snake may look like? I imagine it only having red pigment.

The cat analogy is factually incorrect.

The ICZN and the American Society of Mammalogists classify the Wild Cat (common names are useless) as Felis silvestris. There are numerous subspecies of the F. silvestris, including the African Wild Cat, F. s. lybica, from which ALL "pure" domestic cat are descended. The domestic house cat is known scientifically as Felis silvestris catus (if given subspecific status, a fading trend) or as F. s. "catus" (if simply designated as a domestic variety, a trend on the rise due to it's biological valididy). It cannot go without saying, though, that genetic pollution from feral "catus" is destroying (via genetic swamping) the unique populations native to Europe (F. s. silvestris), especially those isolated in pockets in the far north.

This is fact, supported by multiple lines of evidence, among the most convincing of which is genetic data.
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-Cole