Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i see everyone is building large enclosures with tons of dirt and that is awesome my curiosity comes with how do you keep the smell down if you are unable to clean up like a bearded dragon with newspaper substrate i have a ornate and she is about three feet long and most the time she defalcates in the water however she does use the bottom of her cage from time to time so what is the best way to neutralize the smell when she does defaecate in the dirt?

Simple answer; remove it, or just bury it (dig it in).

I hope this does not offend you, but I think you should keep the monitor a while in a normal cage. I say that because it seems you do not have much experience.

First off, your pond will not work, unless you hire or become a full time worker.

The monitor will fill the cage with dirt as well as dung.

Your cage has far to much mechanicals and will be a nightmare, and its not needed.

So I think if you use a normal cage for awhile, your questions will be answered, then you can decide what direction you want to take.

For instance, deep dirt is what keeps the humidity up. Venting normally drys out cages. If you let your deep dirt dry out, your cage becomes a dust bowl, etc etc etc.

In a nutshell, cages with filters do not work and are a pain in the hind end. Dump and fill is what it will end up, after the filter and pumps fail, so thats a great place to start.

A cage, of whatever size, needs very little venting, so there is really no need for fans and humidifiers, etc etc.

Ok, enough, what do you think?

Instead of going into a rant about how you are not experienced like Frank just did, I will gladly answer your very simple question.

If you set up your substrate correctly, it will run itself bio-actively. You need to add insect and isopod life to the soil. Beetles and their larva are great. Meal worms and Super worms are easy to obtain and will help start up your insect life. Isopod, millipedes, earth worms, and springtails are also a great addition to your soil. Leaf litter and leaf compost will add good bacteria. Not all bacteria are bad and there are many benefitial species.

The combination of insect life and bacteria will help to break down waste products from your lizard VERY quickly. Any uneaten prey will also be devoured in a matter of hours.

That is pretty much it. Run your substrate with these additions and you will never have to clean out or burry anything.

thanks mr madden that is a very simple solution i already keep mealworms by the thousand and i live on a marsh and on the woods so leaf litter is also very easy to obtain as well as earth worm ect.

frank i appreciate your input but im willing to give the monitors there enclosure that they deserve at any cost of money or labor thats what i signed up for when i adopted her. now as of right now she does have a simple substrate but as murrindindi has informed me it is not suitable and i am learning all the fine things as i go.
i wouldn't say im inexperienced i had a Savannah for 8 years he grew from about 18 inches to three feet he was a monster and loved everything i did for him i have a 8x4x4 fiberglass cage with two sliding doors on the front with six inches of cypris mulch and he loved it never dug never hid just climbed around on his numerous logs and basked i have pictures of him somewhere if you would like to see his full size but back on topic the pond is a very simple design and if it fails ill resort back to changing the water daily instead of weekly that is an obstical ill have to overcome the hard way i have to learn from my mistakes

thanks all for the input it was just me wondering about the basics

charlie

The cage will smell, regardless of what you do. Bioactive substrate is a great idea, I also keep some superworms and once they establish, the feces get eaten in less than an hour.
Still, the cage will smell like earth, wood, etc, which can be strong and can be unpleasant to some people. Especially if you keep the cage humid enough and warm enough.

As for your savannah monitor never burying in the cypress mulch, there is a clear reason. This substrate sucks for monitors and they cannot dig tunnels in it. Basically, your monitor never had the chance to dig.

The monitor never being hidden is probably a bad sign too. It's not natural for these animals.

Sorry for the bad comments.

These guys are a bit tricky to keep at first. The it gets easier if you read enough. Unfortunatelly, there are no complete caresheets around.

Remember how you would me how I should write my post, like not say this or that. Your post would have been better but wrong if you didn't add the first paragraph. hahahahahahahahaha

Now I understand why your monitors won't nest in the substrate, too much crap and insects and such to nest correctly.

How about asking Crocdoc about how his boxes would work if they were full of bugs?

Good luck with your, oh I mean Johns monitors, best wishes

Boy, I bet you wish there was an edit button on this site dont ya Frank. Can you please explain the first couple of sentences?

Ya know Frank, for someone so smart, you sure can be ignorant. It also seems you like to talk nonsensical just to try and be correct.

So explain to me why a reptile would not lay eggs in a substrate where there is some insect life. Oh, and guess what, the nest boxes also have the same insect life in them.

Seriously Frank, instead of being so offputting, why not try and actually help people with some real information instead of insulting people and talking in riddles that only you can possibly understand.

Have a good one and thanks for your useless input as usual.

I never actually try to set up a self-sustained miniature ecosystem in a cage before, but from what I've heard that is a little hard to keep clean. In nature the waste get spread out and then broken down pretty quickly by microbes and small invertebrates and such, but in captivity it's more concentrated. You would still need to spot clean it everyday anyway and do a complete cleaning once in a while...hardly worth the effort, if you asked me.

Hi,

Honestly a cage with deep dirt substrate shouldn't smell and it should not require any maintenence to keep it smelling fresh and, well, like dirt. The biological activity that occurs within the substrate will break down any usable food very quickly. Leaflitter will enhance this activity. You may have to pick up the occasional uneaten rodent carcass that is getting ripe, but you could also just bury it and it will be consumed by the system. The two ways that you might get a lingering poop odor is if the cage is too dry to support a proliferation of bacteria, or the cage is too wet to support that same colony.

Isopods and springtails will work in a damp cage and you will inadvertantly add them with leaflitter anyway, but they won't thrive in a monitor cage. I had large colonies of each when I bred dart frogs, however keeping a cage moist enough to support them will be too wet for a monitor. Remember, even your ornate wants dry and humid when it is not swimming, and it does not need to swim. As Frank said, the maintenance required to keep a pool (not a dish) of water is counterproductive 99% of the time. Unless you are willing to provide a large, high-volume pond/pump/filter system, such as one that would be required to maintain a large population of dirty fish like koi. Anything less and you are simply making your job much harder, which will detract from the monitor's quality of life.

In short, a deep sandy dirt substrate will maintain itself, you don't have to add anything, except perhaps leaflitter, which will increase the biological activity and help with poop consumption. And unless you are willing to go all in with the pond (large volume and costly {$$&time} filter/pump), ditch the idea, as you will be sorry later. Good luck.

Will

Hi WillStill, I`m not sure if I understood you correctly, so my reply may not make much sense!?
Varanus ornatus is probably the moat aquatic of the African monitor species, you suggest it doesn`t need to swim, it doesn`t need to climb or dig either, if it comes to that!
I`ve been using ponds and exterior filters for well over 20 years, yes, they need to be maintained, but so does everything else.
Do you advise keepers with V. salvator and mertensi etc, not to bother fitting ponds, but just a water dish?
The OP has kept varanids previously, and seems more than willing to do whatever`s necessary.
And if this is a male, 2 feet or more of substrate isn`t "needed" anyway!

Hi,

I mentioned deep substrate not for nesting purposes, but for the decomposition qualities it offers, because the op mentioned controlling odors. If the op is willing to put in the time and money to do the water section right, as you suggest, then go for it, otherwise I would personally forgo it. I and many others I know have successfully maintained single male Niles, ornates, and salvadors without more than a water dish. In fact, a local friend successfully bred and hatched several clutches of waters in the mid 90s with no more than a water dish, so if all other security factors are in line, it can certainly be done.

While I agree that a well maintained water section can be beneficial if done right, it will be a nightmare if done wrong, that was all I was saying.

Thanks.

Will

Hi again WillStill, thanks for the reply and explanation.
I understand what you and Frank R. were saying, but this species can reach 2.5m, how big of a water "dish" will it take to allow even a complete soak that can be emptied, refilled and heated daily?
Fitting a pond, a filter and heater is pretty easy, as is placing the pond somewhat higher than the substrate, or putting a few paving stones around the edge to stop too much substrate being dragged/thrown in (it`s worked with my monitors).
Nobody has commented/criticised JPL`s enclosure with the large pool, and 3 monitors to defaecate in it! (Is there a difference)?

Hi Murrindindi,

Obviously, a dish will not allow soaking for anything but a hatchling. All I was trying to say is that even though a large, clean source of water for swimming would be ideal, it has not been necessary in my experience. Of course, I made sure that I compensated for that security option that I did not provide.

I always considered big, soaking tubs for water monitors, kind of like a child's wading pool, fun to soak in, but useless for swimming, or escaping from predators, as these water types would primarily use water for. So honestly, I didn't really believe that I was depriving them of that much. In reality the vast majority of water monitor keepers don't offer swimming areas, they offer soaking areas, and while I'm sure such tubs are appreciated, they do not fullfill the security needs that a river or stream would provide. The only time I have seen a captive envirnment that addresses a water monitor's security needs was the Cleveland Zoo's set up, which would have made a colony of seals happy.

If anyone wants to deal with dumping, disinfecting and re-filling a 50 gallon or much larger soaking tub daily, than more power to that individual. That is a lot of work, more work than I cared to take on. I wish anyone who takes on such a giant responsibility the very best, including that fella with the cummingi. I just don't see such offerings as necessary to maintain those species. Good conversation, thanks.

Will

In that case WillStill, we agree.
I thought you were saying just provide a water dish.
Of course, providing them with a pool big enough to actually swim would be out of the question for most hobbyists, and not "needed".
Just somewhere big enough for the animal to fully submerge, and 30 to 50gals would be adequate for most (another matchbox sized offering)... They`re so accomodating, these varanids!