Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm desperately looking for another CA redback (preferably Box Canyon locale) to replace what was my favorite chuck (see previous posts about losing my 2 male chucks during brumation), hopefully in time to breed with my females. If anyone can make any recommendations, I'd be grateful.

What is always difficult it seems is to find one with not only good color but just as important to me is to find one that is very laid back like my Box Canyon male was (not aggressive or flighty at all). I'd even describe him as "puppy dog" tame even though he was wild caught. Although a CB adult would be preferable in many respects, it seems my best bet in obtaining an adult male like I'm looking for (good color and a great temperament) is to have access to a group of WC chucks from which I can choose or have the right connections with the right people. Unfortunately for me, I have neither. I suppose I'll have to settle for what I can get. Although a Box Canyon locale is preferred, even another CA redback locality would do I suppose. Since the chucks from Box Canyon are so variable, maybe it's not as important as keeping other locales pure (e.g. Crater Range AZ) where the males especially are more consistent in the way they look.

Perry

If you are able to choose from a group of wild again, you best choice is not necessarily the most laid back chuck. You want them to behave like a normal chuck in every way in my opinion. I hope someone can get you a quick replacement for your project.
Kind regards,
John

Thanks John. Normal chuck behavior in my opinion is somewhat different from the often variable temperaments that chucks will exhibit. That holds true for many lizard species (green iguanas come to mind) as well as many other animals.

When I used the words "laid back", I think you might thinking "lethargic". Nothing could be further from the truth. He was very active. I just meant that he had a great temperament (not skittish or aggressive in the slightest). He simply acted like a lot of people describe their captive born chucks. I know others have encountered WC chucks that are similar, just a different genetic makeup from other wild caught chucks that might be flighty or aggressive. All of the chucks that I brumated were extremely healthy and ate like pigs. Why the two males died during brumation remains a mystery. Of the four wild caught chucks that I brumated (2 males and 2 females), only one of them (a female) is flighty. The other three had very calm temmperaments. Those three hand fed from me all the time and would eagerly climb up my arm. They would not hiss, gape or even puff up when I picked them up.

Over the past 20 years or so, I've also kept over a dozen species of chameleons and bred many of them. Some of them even have a reputation as being a shy species, but as with chucks, I consider "calmness" (again, not to be confused with lethargy) to be a more desirable trait than coloration when looking for breeding stock. I look for that trait simply because, in my experience at least, I find that calmer individuals adjust better to captivity and make for better long term captives.

It sounds like you've had your share of critters and I didn't mean to high jack your request to find animals. from your personal experience I'd say you can tell a lethargic lizard from healthy. It's a drag the forum (as well as the collared forum) have become so stagnant. It used to be so easy to find breeders of animals etc. I wish the the best of luck. Tom Greg...where are you?

You're right John. It's extremely dead around here. Maybe the regulars are in brumation like their chucks. Give it a little while and hopefully they'll start to wake up. After all, even the chucks are apparently somewhat active now.

Today I went to a reptile show and one vendor had about 12 chucks. First I've seen this season. I haven't even seen any on the kingsnake classifieds yet. Needless to say, I couldn't resist picking up a couple of males, maybe to lessen the hurt of my recent loss.

Both males have great temperments, not flighty or aggressive and very inquisitive, the very quality that I found so endearing about chucks the first time I ever saw one in person. The larger male already ate out of my hand. He came right up to me to take the lone dandelion flower that I found in my yard today out of my fingers.

The smaller one I would describe as an immature male, especially judging by his size. He is quite a bit smaller than the other male. He has a solid black head and his back is speckled with orange that will hopefully fill in a little as he grows. Strange to me though (probably simply because I haven't seen enough chucks in person) is that his femoral pores seemed to be pretty well developed for his size (way more so that the other chucks his size and more than the adult females). He even had waxy secretions coming out of his pores. The larger male is an overall white coloration (even his head is mostly white) with only some orange and a little black speckled over his body. His overall white coloration makes me think I should call him Casper.

Although the vendor did not have any locality info on these chucks, the amount of variation I saw in this group reminds me of the group of 20 or so chucks from Box Canyon CA. I'm guessing these chucks are from some CA locale, but I wish I knew where. They definitely do not remind me of any of the Nevada chucks that I've seen much more frequently over the years.

Perry

I'm hoping Tom will chime in here. If you post some pictures he may offer some good insight as to where they could have been collected. I believe a lot of the whiter colored individuals come from the San Diego area. I may have that crossed with some location in Palm Springs.

I'm anxious for you to post some pictures of your new studs!

John

Hi,

been a very long time since I've posted here, but passing chance got me lurking. The White backed chuckwallas are def. from the Colorado Desert (San Diego, specifically Anza-Borrego) area, though I'm not sure how far north they come. As far as redbacks go, if you're still looking around, shoot me a PM. I might be able to help you find one!

best regards,
-Phil Clevinger

Perry,
Without definite locality information, all we can do is guess. Even if a likely locality is determined, they should still be represented as an unknown locale. I.E. posts, picture tags, advertisements (if you ever decide to sell them), etc. Some patterns tend to occur over a large area, or sporadically across the range, so nailing it down to a particulat locale, or even state is almost impossible in most cases. I amd also looking forward to seeing some pictures.
On the little male, it is not unusual. All males tend to mature at different rates. I have seen males' femoral pores become enlarged (no secretions yet) before 1 year of age. I have seen a lot of wild chucks that show secretions at a relatively small size.
I hope your new guys do well for you, and I hope to see some pics soon.

Take Care.
Nick

I concur with Nick, both on the variety of color phases in same locales and also...post some pics!

I agree. I'll never be able to nail my newest additions down to a particular locale. Also, no one should sell something as "X" locale if they do not have collection data, etc. I also keep dart frogs and that is a topic that comes up frequently.

At first, after I lost my Box Canyon male redback (although he wasn't red, he had a very nice orange coloration over most of his back, more so than other males I've seen from that locale, and he had an awesome temperament to boot) one of my concerns was that I would not be able to find a replacement male from that locale unless I took a trip out to the Twenty Nine Palms area of CA. However, now I'm not as much concerned with that. I just want to find a good, orange-backed male (preferably from a CA locale) to breed with my female Box Canyon chuck.

As a buyer, it wouldn't really mean much to me if I bought baby chucks from Box Canyon because I would have no idea what they would grow up to look like. In other words, I would rather buy an adult from that locale and select for certain coloration and temperaments. On the other hand, I would be much quicker to buy baby chucks from Crater Range AZ because, if my understanding is correct, there is more consistancy on how the males from that area will look like as adults.

So, for me anyway, it is more important to keep localities pure for certain locales primarily for the sake of people who might want to buy offspring. Keeping locales pure when it comes to dart frogs or even the various locales of panther chameleons may be worthwhile for other reasons as well, but the primary reason seems to be not to muddy the different locales so people will know what to expect as the animals mature, etc.

I'm probably opening up a whole can of worms here, but I always find it interesting how different groups (e.g. dart frog keepers vs snake keepers) feel so differently about this topic. I would definitely prefer to keep all the chuckwalla locales pure, but since breeders seem to be far and few between, I'm not going to sweat it when it comes to certain locales. I just want to gain experience and to eventually have the joy of hatching out some baby chucks (as long as I can be sure of finding buyers). When it comes to other locales though, as mentioned earlier, keeping the locales pure is much more important to me. And finally, in all cases, it should be made known to potential buyers whatever locality data is or is not available. Just my thoughts. How do you guys feel about this topic and why?