Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a red Texan cornsnake that is about 14 years old that has regurgitated his last 8 mice. He takes them quite readily but after 2-3 days we find a part digested mouse in the bottom of the tank. We have adjusted the humidity and the temperature but this has not altered anything. He is still active and regularly drinks water and produces a clean "all in one" shed. A vet will just force feed him and that is not what is needed.

Any advice would be appreciated.

A vet would NOT "just force feed" him.

They would do a full physical exam, palpating, listening to the lungs, and probably (rightly) recommend x-rays to check for any masses/blockages. They would also want to run a fecal test to check to parasitic infections.

They would also provide a tube feeding diet that is calorie dense and a liquid, which is significantly easier to digest than mice, and probably provide a probiotic as your snake at this point has likely depleted his stomach flora and this could be a major cause of the repeat regurges as well.

How often have you been offering him after his regurges? What size prey items?

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>>How often have you been offering him after his regurges? What size prey items?

If you have been trying to feed it on a regular feeding schedule you need to give the snake time to recuperate.
When a snake regurges you want to give it 10 to 14 days before attempting to feed again. repeated feedings and regurges can result in "regurge syndrome". considering 8 regurges, I would be confident in saying your snake won't make it without a vet visit. A vet would not recommend force feeding.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

Thank you very much for your advice it is very much appreciated and we will try to find a vet that deals with exotic pets in our area as the local one has gone out of business. We will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again

Can you please answer my question about how often you have been offering food since the first regurge, and what size prey item?

Sorry about that, we have been offering fresh prey roughly a fortnight after, but we did not know to change the size. They were medium sized mice. Would it be advisable to buy a bag of pinkies?

I fully agree with the others. Repeated feedings only make things FAR WORSE!. The first thing you MUST do is diagnose the problem that is causing the snake to regurgitate!. It is likely a stomach infection caused by microbial pathogens, but you need to get it looked at by a qualified vet first off. Among the other things they will do that was also mentioned is do a throat/mouth smear and a fecal floatation. I am betting it would do wonders if given a two-dose regimen of Flagyl (Metronidazole) at the rate of 50mg/kg of body weight and NOT attempt any feeding until 10-14 days AFTER the last dosing. And then the meals should be very small for a while after to make darn sure it won't regurge again from it's poor system being so taxed.

Eight regurges is extremely serious and very life-threatening, and it needs to see a vet for immediate medical attention or it won't have even the smallest chance of surviving....I guarantee it.

Hope the poor snake pulls through!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Once again thanks for all the advice. We are off to see a vet tomorrow, who will do a full diagnosis and start him on a high calorie liquid diet until we can get him to a specialist in Falkirk.

We will print off your messages and take them with us just in case. The snake has been active today and has been drinking water.

Thanks again

>>Once again thanks for all the advice. We are off to see a vet tomorrow, who will do a full diagnosis and start him on a high calorie liquid diet until we can get him to a specialist in Falkirk.
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>> We will print off your messages and take them with us just in case. The snake has been active today and has been drinking water.
>>
>>Thanks again

hopefully it's strong enough to pull through.
If it's still showing decent girth for it's length and isn't too emaciated you may be able to get it back to good health with a little help from a qualified professional.
good luck
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Corn snakes and rat snakes...No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
Draybars Snakes

We are back from the vet who thinks that although he is underweight his general condition is as good as any snake he has seen. He has a very clean mouth, good shiny scales and no tumours or other blockages that the vet could feel. He has prescribed critical condition liquid supplement which we will need to get tomorrow and hopefully he will pull through but we may need face the fact that it could also be age related too.

"We are back from the vet who thinks that although he is underweight his general condition is as good as any snake he has seen. He has a very clean mouth, good shiny scales and no tumours or other blockages that the vet could feel. He has prescribed critical condition liquid supplement which we will need to get tomorrow and hopefully he will pull through but we may need face the fact that it could also be age related too"

Well, it's a great move that you took it to a vet and it's body weight seems okay as well. But the part where you mention that "it's mouth is clean" is okay too, but the MOST important thing the vet should have done right off the bat was to swab the mouth and throat for microbial pathogens and/or worms as well as the fecal floatation to examine for any parasitic/microbial activity. Like I mentioned before, this is usually what the problem is 8 times out of ten with regurgitations. This can be brought on by several things, or a combination of several things.

1) too cool temperature (won't allow the snake to properly digest meals)

2) temps too warm (and snake cannot get away from the heat)

3) fouled water source or ingested fouled substrate.

It's extremely important to know that ONCE regurgitation starts, the snake loses all of the stomach acids and enzymes and electrolytes, along with good gut flora (bacteria) needed to properly digest in conjunction with temps in the low to mid 80's on belly surface to facilitate proper digestion. Once this goes out of whack, the gut needs to replenish what it lost FIRST as well as treat any pathogenic activity so it can even begin to go on and digest a meal successfully. Offering food only makes things far WORSE until the problem source is addressed. See what I mean??. This is extremely important to understand, because all the food in the world only worsens things and causes more regurges in the process of doing so if it cannot properly digest it!

If the snake has a fairly decent body weight, I would skip the liguid diet BS. The vet should be finding out what CAUSED the regurges. As stated, it is VERY likely intestinal microbial activity, or even worms of some kind along with the bad bacteria. This is what needs to be taken care of if it doesn't have any blockages as was said. It could possibly be age-related, but you have to exlude any of the other easy to deal with possibilities first and foremost.

A good move would be to print this out like you did before (which was a great move on your part), and show this to the vet.

I am betting money that it could easily be taken care of with a simple regimen of Flagyl(Metronidazole) with NO FOOD in during this time at all. I have done this several times myself when it was needed, as well as saved the lives of many other people's snakes before that were literally at death's door from regurging time and time again when they followed my instructions to the exact letter.

Here are the basic things to follow that I have posted before to others in the past:

First,….DO NOT attempt to feed it more meals until it has been looked at, I strongly suspect it has some nasty intestinal bacteria from the putrid previous meals. I would imagine a two-dose regimen of Flagyl(metronidazole) could EASILY be all that is needed here. This will kill the bad protozoa/pathogens as WELL as the GOOD bacteria that is needed for proper digestion, so STOP offering it any food until the snake has been looked at and helped. Feeding at this point will only lead to more regurges and a DEFINITE downward spiral that could easily end up killing it. Offering food at this point is the WORST thing you could do right now until you takle the intestinal problem.

Hopefully the vet will know the proper course of action, but MANY vets don't know diddly squat about reptile medicine whatsoever. The snake should get a dose of of Flagyl (Metronidazole) at the rate of 50 mg./per kg. of body weight given orally, and another follow-up dose 10 to 14 days later. NO FOOD should be offered until at LEAST a good week or so AFTER the last dose so the snake can replenish it's vital acids, electrolytes, enzymes and gut flora before being fed again. And when it IS fed again, they should be very small meals for a while to make certain they stay down and are digested properly, you cannot afford for this to happen any more whatsoever.

After several VERY small meals, you could GRADUALLY increase the size back to the size prey it was normally eating, just make sure you never offer these gigantic meals again, that is of no benefit at all, and usually only makes it tough on the snake's system as you have already found out.

Sometimes snakes develop this from fouled water too, so who knows, but I would bet a dollar to a donut some Flagyl at the proper dosing will take care of this. Flagyl is very reptile friendly too!

If the simple fecal floatation turns up intestinal worm parasites, it needs a dose of Panacur (Fenbendazole) at the rate of 100mg./kg. of body weight. Repeat in 12-14 days. Feeding it a stomach full of liquid food will only dilute any medication and make it work that much less anyway, or worse yet it will cause THAT to also be regurged because the root CAUSE was never addressed first!

Anyway, I really hope the poor snake gets better,...I really do. Best of luck, and please make sure the vet is fully aware of what I am saying here.

regards, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

...I forgot to also add that after the mentioned amount of time (12-14 days) has passed from the last dose, you need to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you offer very SMALL meals to it for several feeding, and only then if it proves to hold them down and pass them with no issues you could GRADUALLY up the size a bit in increments. This is also just as important as the rest of the what I posted.

best of luck, and I hope the snake can recover and thrive once again..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

We have given the first dose of critical care by syringe. Wasn't a nice experience at all. is there a less stressful way to do this. As we have a very placid snake and don't want to turn him. We do realise that if we don't give him anything we won't have a snake at all, but surely stressing him out like that daily can't be good either Any advice would be appreciated

I don't follow?.....what "critical care daily"??

What it needs is ONE dose of what I recommended before in my earlier post, and then another in 12-14 days. and NOT being fed until at least 10 or more days AFTER the LAST DOSE,.......not being fed EVERY DAY with some liquid diet that won't take care of THE PROBLEM first!!!

Did you read my post at all???

I'm trying to help you out here and especially for THE SNAKE to survive!!!

If the snake isn't skin and bones forget the feeding nonsense and get it medicated like I suggested. It will kill the problem, no stress, and it won't cause a domino effect all over again which is what will happen otherwise.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"