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What do you guys think of my diet for my two juvenile Nile monitors?

Sunday: Crickets & mice
Monday: Crickets & chopped whole hard-boiled egg
Tuesday: Crickets & scallops
Wednesday: Crickets & chopped whole hard-boiled egg
Thursday: Crickets & roaches
Friday: Crickets & ground venison
Saturday: Crickets & fish

I'm going to replace the crickets with roaches once my colony gets up to speed; it's only going well enough to feed them sparingly at this point in time. They will only get half a F/T fuzzy each (if that) at their current size. I grind up the egg shells and mix them in with the rest of the egg to help increase the calcium in their diet. The venison is from my deer from hunting season and was processed by me; there are no preservatives in it, and most of the fat was removed before processing. The fish will either be tilapia fillet or live fish.

I greatly appreciate any recommendations. Thanks in advance!

Oops, I forgot to mention that the feeder insects get dusted with vitamin powder, too.

[Quote]: What do you guys think of my diet for my two juvenile Nile monitors?

Sunday: Crickets & mice
Monday: Crickets & chopped whole hard-boiled egg
Tuesday: Crickets & scallops
Wednesday: Crickets & chopped whole hard-boiled egg
Thursday: Crickets & roaches
Friday: Crickets & ground venison
Saturday: Crickets & fish

I'm going to replace the crickets with roaches once my colony gets up to speed; it's only going well enough to feed them sparingly at this point in time. They will only get half a F/T fuzzy each (if that) at their current size. I grind up the egg shells and mix them in with the rest of the egg to help increase the calcium in their diet. The venison is from my deer from hunting season and was processed by me; there are no preservatives in it, and most of the fat was removed before processing. The fish will either be tilapia fillet or live fish.

I greatly appreciate any recommendations. Thanks in advance![Enquote].

Hi, apart from the lean meat (venison) and fish fillets, the rest is o.k, I would personally use a rodent/fish based diet, (some inverts are fine, too). Whole prey items only, the fish can be either fresh or saltwater, if you`re worried it may be too salty, rinse under the tap!
Also, fertilised quail eggs (or chicks), are excellent.
Can you give a few details of enclosure size and type, and conditions inside? Thanks!

Right now they're in a 29 gallon aquarium (30" x 12" x 18" with a screen lid; I've blocked off most of the screen with foil except for a little bit on the cool end in order to keep the humidity up. The warm end is around 90°F at substrate level while the basking spot (a large piece of sandstone) is around 130°F; the cool end is around 80°F. Humidity stays around 60%; their water dish is large enough to allow them to soak & submerge completely. The bedding is a peat moss/vermiculite mix that holds a burrow pretty well when moist; they have 5" on the cool end that slopes up to 6" on the warm end.

They're getting moved to my 75 gallon aquarium (48" x 18" x 21" sometime next week; I'm working on a new lid for it because they figured out the old one within minutes of being placed in there, and I would prefer to avoid any and all escapes. I'm starting construction of their permanent cage(s) come June; I haven't decided on the dimensions yet as I want to determine their gender first before deciding whether to keep them together or not.

They're only about 12" long in total length now, so are you sure that they will be fine with being switched to a rodent/fish-based diet already? As for the venison, would it be acceptable to feed them it if the cleaned organs, skin, hair, and some ground up bone are ground in with it? If so, then I'll just save some of those come hunting season to make food for them. Will whole live small minnows work for the fish portion of their diet? I have a pond that has a decent population of minnows which is why I ask; I know that disease could be a concern, but I also know that store-bought live fish as well as dead whole fish typically are full of chemicals & diseases.

Oh, and the eggs that I use are fertilized chicken eggs from free-range chickens that my grandmother raises. Should I incubate the eggs for a little bit before cooking them so that there's a little chick inside?

Hi again, absolutely no disrespect, but everything about the enclosure is bad, from the glass that offers no privacy and is a bad insulator, to the (part covered) screen top. In a fish tank of this size it`s almost impossible to get a decent temp/humidity gradient, or for one animal to "escape" from the other if/when domination issues take place.
As far as waiting until june before building something more suitable, and separating them if necessary once you know gender, they are more than capable of inflicting fatal injuries right now, though if you do have a m+f the best chance of them getting along is from the start.
They need a relatively deep substrate, both for humidity and burrowing (15 to 18inches would suffice at the moment).
These anamals grow VERY quickly when properly supported, and that must be from the very beginning, not somewhere along the line.
I hope you take this as constructive criticism!
Yes, you could try incubating the eggs and feed the chicks.

Animals, not anamals!

I have a 48" x 24" x 24" galvanized metal cattle trough, so would that be more suitable housing for the time being?

Is there a reliable way to determine their gender at their current size? I would prefer that they get along if they're a pair or two females, but I also want to prevent any injuries; it seems like there's a chance for fatal injuries in either case, though... I was also under the impression that juveniles were somewhat communal for their first few months of life or was I misinformed by what I read?

How quick are we talking for growth? I've come across quite a few growth rates, so I don't know what to believe at this point in regards to growth.

Yes, the trough would be much better, you need to fit a solid top (plexiglass would work), then around 12inches of well compacted soil/sand mix, firm enough to hold burrows.
You need to worry about only to temps; the coolest ambient (air) at approx 21 to 24c (72 to 75f), then the surface at the basking area between approx 50 to 60c (120 to 140f), the humidity (obviously it`ll be lower around the basking spot), should be in the 60 to 80% range.
What type of heating/lighting are you using? Low wattage halogen (flood, not spot) bulbs are best?
No, the hatchlings/juveniles are not "communal" for the first few months.

Okay, I'll get that setup ASAP. Would the 50/25/25 soil/sand/vermiculite mixture described on the Pro Exotics website work, or would a 75/25 soil/sand mix be preferable to that?

I have a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter, and two 100 watt Zoo Med spot lamps; the heat emitter is on a dimmer in order to keep the substrate below it at 80°F. I'll return the spot lamps tomorrow and get a flood lamp; do you have a recommended brand/brands?

Only one of the spot lamps is in use by the way; I just have the other as a spare.

[Quote]: Okay, I'll get that setup ASAP. Would the 50/25/25 soil/sand/vermiculite mixture described on the Pro Exotics website work, or would a 75/25 soil/sand mix be preferable to that?

I have a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter, and two 100 watt Zoo Med spot lamps; the heat emitter is on a dimmer in order to keep the substrate below it at 80°F. I'll return the spot lamps tomorrow and get a flood lamp; do you have a recommended brand/brands?
[Enquote].

Using the CHE will dry out the air, the two 100w spotlights will do the same, that`s why using low wattage halogen floods (40 to 50w), two or three in a row is best, just raise/lower `til you get the recommended basking surface temp.
I can`t tell you any brands or where to buy, I`m living in the U.K just now (from Australia), just everyday halogen floods, I expect hardware stores would do them?
As far as the substrate, don`t use the vermiculite, just a soil/playsand mix, it`s basically trial and error, start from 75 to 25% soil to sand, see how it works.

Okay, I will return all of those pieces of equipment & pick up a few of those flood lamps. Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're talking about flood lamps similar to the ones I posted a link, right?

Now should I run those 24/7 since I'll be taking the CHE out of the mix, or should I get a red halogen lamp for at night? My house can get down into the low 70's/high 60's at times which is why I ask.

I'll play around with the dirt mix and will report back. The goal is for it to hold a burrow while somewhat moist, right?
GE 2-Pack 45-Watt Indoor/Outdoor Halogen Flood light Bulb

Yes, those are the bulbs! They experience quite low temps in the wild, personally, I would try not to let the lowest ambient (in their hides/burrows) get below approx 20c (68f), or a little higher.
I kept the very closely related Ornate monitor (a separate species), for 14 years, though they prefer somewhat higher humidity than Nile monitors, and slightly higher nighttime temps.

Okay, sounds good. I'll try to go get those bulbs tomorrow then.

Sorry, you asked earlier how quickly they can grow; when fully supported, I would expect a monthly growth increase between approx 5 to 8cm, their metabolism is at it`s highest.
By the way, they don`t need a full grown hen`s egg, that`s why the quail eggs/chicks are good, a nice size for them, offer them raw (the eggs), cooking will lose some of the nutritional value (still a decent meal, nontheless).

Excellent, so they'll be big in no time at all if I do everything right.

I unfortunately don't have access to quail eggs; the eggs I'm using are from bantam chickens, so they're a bit bigger than a quail egg but are much smaller than a standard chicken egg. Just to double-check, I should switch them to a F/T mice & whole fish diet with eggs, seafood, & insects as secondary foods?

Yes, a rodent/whole fish based diet is excellent, they are both "complete" meals needing no supplementation.
Feed as much as they will eat daily, but as they grow, regulate the total ammount according to their physical condition, it truly isn`t hard to notice if an animal is looking overweight, and adjust, though seeing some monitors, you might think it was!
Will you put a few photos up when you`ve done the upgrade?

Okay, I'll get them started on that diet tomorrow as I already fed them today. I've heard that pinkies are a poor choice due to their fat content, so will small fuzzies work better?

I'll definitely post some pictures once I get them switched. Also, how large of a water area should I give them once I switch them? I was thinking of using a plastic paint roller tray, but would something larger be a better idea?

Personally I prefer fuzzies, they have more protein and the skeleton is full formed (not to suggest pinkies aren`t of some use at times), if the fuzzy is too big, cut it in half down the length while still frozen (much easier).
I`m told the pinkies are "full of milk", but to the best of my knowledge, Varanids cannot metabolise the lactose, so the miniscule ammount (in reality) is of no benefit!
They really need a heated water container (the mid 80`s F), but a smaller enclosure lower ambient temp water container will suffice temporarily.

Okay, cool; I've got a bag of ~50 fuzzies, so I should be set for a while then.

I have a spare 10 gallon aquarium and some small pieces of glass, so I could make something out of that for their water area.

Sounds good, I need to sign out, It`s getting late over here, keep asking questions, I`ll be back on tomorrow (wednesday).

Thanks for the help thus far! Hopefully I'll have made some progress by this time tomorrow.

Okay, so I haven't made any progress yet as I realized that it's going to be really expensive to buy soil & sand by the bag, so I'm going to get a truckload of each instead; it will actually cost less to get more substrate than I need at this time!

I saw the large of the two defecate just a little bit ago, but I didn't see any "equipment" come out, so maybe it's a female?

Do you not have any soil to spare from the backyard?
The hatchlings don`t necessarily show anything when they defaecate, so not a good indication of sex not seeing anything!

No, the dirt in my backyard turns into stinky mush when it gets wet; it only holds up when it's planted.

Darn, I was hoping that not seeing anything meant something at this age. Do they only tend to expose their hemipenes when they're larger?

They sometimes evert them, but not always fully, which means it`s very difficult to tell. They do it deliberately (or rather don`t do it), just to frustrate the keeper!

Ah, okay. The male's hemipenes have a "flower" of sorts on the end, right?

Not noticable at this stage.
You might try the transillumination technique; take an led flashlight, cover the edges of the glass with some tape so the beam is more focused, then you`ll need to turn the monitor on it`s back and shine the light through from below (two people will be better to do this), you might see the hemipenes.
There`s an article by Dr. Danny Brown in an issue of the "Biawak" journal, I don`t have the issue number to hand, but type into your search engine "Transillumination technique for sexing varanids", it should com eup with details.

I'll have to look that up and give it a try!

Back to the enclosure size, now do you think that the 4' x 2' x 2' will work for a month or two at maximum, or should I start on their adult cage(s) sooner than that?

Well, it looks like two females, but I'll try again tomorrow with someone else holding them so that I can get pictures to be sure.

Th
Hemipenal Transillumination as a Sexing Technique in Varanids

Grr, I posted the previous message before I meant to.

What I started to say was,is the previously linked article the correct one?

I didn't have any luck with sexing them yet again.

I'm hoping to get two more at the reptile show today.

Have you trully put the thought into what 4 adult(if they get to that point) nile monitors will cost and the space and time they will take up plus if you don't even have your first two set up right yet why would you be trying to get two more to not set up right? Slow down get your current ones set up right and get them to adult size once you are dealing with two adults going full speed then deciede if you want two more. Trust me on this your trying to get too much to fast ...i've done this myself before it will end badly for you and your animals.
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