Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A friend of mine has a Rosy whose locality is from Burns Canyon near Rimrock, CA. That is up the road from Pioneertown, but not from the Pipe's Canyon area where Pioneertown Rosies are supposedly found.

Are Rimrock/Burn's Canyon and Pioneertown considered the same "locality"? There are only a few miles apart on the map.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

If you know rosy enthusiasts, the delineations between locales can get down to minor details. For example, a Whitewater rosy vs a Verbenia rosy, even though the habitat is very much the same and the locations are connected within the habitat and very close to one another. But, some Verbenia rosies look slightly different than some Whitewater rosies, and it can be a noticeable difference. Whitewater does have the river, so that may change things up a bit. Plus it is fun to get all anal over locality. Rosies make great subjects for locality delineations.

Is the habitat the same? Is the plant community the same? I would call them what they are. Or call them by the mountain range they are in, like Little San Bernardino Mtns locality Rimrock area (did I get the correct range??). A potential buyer of offspring would appreciate that info. I know I would. If I then bred it to a snake from Pipe's road, I would call them by the mtn range and then state where the each of the parents came from.

Funny because when you see a rosy from Arizona for sale on kingsnake, they just say the mountain range typically. They don't get down to the roads they were found on. But in So Cal it gets specific. Probably because so many sub-localities have been carved up and have become essentially isolated due to development and freeways. Outside of Calif and Ariz, I don't think people care as much. But in So Cal, we are locality nazis when it comes to rosies from So Cal.

I have spent some time along Hwy 243, and I have a fondness for that area for some reason. If I had a rosy from there, I would want it known exactly where. It may not be important to someone else or to the rosy for that matter, but I still want to know. So my advice is to follow that guideline. It will probably generate more interest among potential buyers, unless its some person in Ohio that has never seen the lower desert areas of So Cal.

Good question. I've hunted both areas, and I'd probably consider a boa from there a PiTown. Rosy locales are funny. Some are really road and canyon specific. Take Long Canyon or Nichols Rd for instance. Both are locales named for specific places. I have hunted and found boas in canyons other than Big Morongo Canyon, several miles away that are still considered Morongos. Not quite as canyon or road specific as the previous 2 locales, but named more for a general region. Pretty intersting. I look @ boa loclaes like Thomas Davis looks @ King morphs,--- like living, breathing baseball cards for snake nerds. Perhaps some of the older boaheads on the rosy forum can give you a better perspective.

reako45

depending upon the genetic roll of the dice, a Burns could look way more Coastal than a Pietown... because Burns is higher in elevation, and should have less desert influence. On that elevation/genetic influence alone, I would differentiate between the two locals. Pipes are fairly common... Burns Cyn... not so much. jim

I collected both places.

I would consider any rosy from a locale that is either from a rockpile in the middle of the desert or seperated by a ridge (Whietwater -Verbenia) to be called by theose seprate locales.

A lot of the desert rosy locales are almost like island pops which have been breeding with each other for thousands of years.

I am not saying the rosys are not found in flat desert (washes ect) but the more isolated the pop is the more it should be named after its exact locale.

Even in Trona they refer to the Homewood cyn rosy and the ones on the ridge as different. As well as the ones going down the other side to lower elevation.

Even in Borrego the really light hypo Borrego rosys are found in the lower east part of S22. Whereas other parts of the road they look different. Then go south down S2 toward Ocitilo you find the anery rosys.

The best part of what I used to do is find rosys in locales that are unkown. They literally are everywhere. I never could figure out why people go where other went (as if the rosys only exist there). One of my favorite spost was right off Hwy 62 on the west side almost down near I-10. There are washes there with tons of rosys if you walk at night. I even found them sitting on the curb of 62 watching the car headlights zoom by.

also all those rockpiles up in the high desert near the road on the way to Trona. Those small outcrops. yep , they are there also.