Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I tried to fed my corn snake for a couple of days now and she wont eat I've tried putting it in the feeding box with just the food for a few hours with no luck and I tried leaving the food in her enclosure over night with again no luck then I tried to box thing and then I also tried to tease feed her and she didn't do that either. So any tips would be awesome I want her to eat twice a week and she hasn't eaten for a week already. The pet store told me that she ate a fuzzy last time and they told me not to go back to the pinkies. They also said they get them all nice and warm and put the food in a seperate containier then them in it and they should eat right away. They also told me not to fed her for over a week and wait until she looks like she is really searching for food. They said they fed her 2 or 3 days before I purchased her and she had a couple nice bowels on my friend so I know that she has digested her food by now. And I’ve posted this in the general forum but I thought I would bring it to the corn snake specific forum since that is what she is. And here is the advice I have gotten so far in this forum and others pieced together:

Markg wrote:
Sometimes new snakes do not eat immediately. The pic seems to show that the snake is dehydrated. I would hydrate it first. Clue #1 - that snake was not kept in ideal conditions at the store. It needs some TLC. To hydrate, fill a plastic shoebox with just about 1/4 inch of water, tepid water is best (not cold, not warm to the touch either). That is all, just 1/4 inch or less. Put the snake in there for 5 minutes. Do that every 3rd day a few more times. Cornsnakes can stress, so the snake not feeding may be due to the move. Give the snake a few hides (warm end and cool end of the cage) and leave it alone other than the soaking. Try a thawed pinkie in a few days. I don't care what the pet store says, try a pinkie first, thawed. I know there are some knowledgeable pet store staff out there, but the hard truth is many know nothing about keeping snakes healthy. There is a cornsnake forum here, use that resource as much as you need to.

And I asked : How can you tell when they are dehydrated? And also how should I know when to upgrade from the pinkie to the fuzzy? and should I try to fed her more then one pinkie at a time?

Denbar said that maybe she is about to get ready to shed and sometimes they don’t want to fed.

Tspuckler said:
In addition to what the other's have said here are a few quick ideas: 1) Do not disturb/handle the snake until it is on a regular feeding schedule (has eaten 5 or 6 times). 2) House baby snakes in small containers - like the size of a shoebox or smaller. 3) Do not subject snake to bright lights. 4) Make sure the snake has hide areas. 5) Feed the baby corn in the evening - do not watch it eat. Put the food into the cage and leave it alone until the following morning.

Dmong said:
In the one pic it seems to have a lump in the belly area. I hope that is indeed the remnants of a good meal and not an internal growth or obstruction of some sort. It does seem odd that the store said it ate three days prior to purchase, but the lump is still there and seems more recent....hmmmmm, now I am starting to think the store might have been pulling a fast one with that claim........I hope not for the snake's sake. Being as thin as it is already, it needs to get some nutrition going on pretty soon. best of luck with getting it feeding. Another word of helpful advice would be to not make the meals very large right off the bat. Many times thinner snake's internal workings aren't as used to processing food as others are. You sure as heck cannot afford any regurgitation issues with it, that could be deadly. This is why the the temps and the entire setup have to be good enough to help this along as soon as possible.

And this is the last thing I added:
when I did take that pic she had a nice few bowels on my friend not long after that and the lump is gone thats why I want her to fed. The pet store told me that she ate a fuzzy but someone else told me that I should start her off on a pinkie but I dont know if I should just give her one or offer her more then one since they said that she ate a fuzzy before. and when do you know when to upgrade? Is it when she eats and it doesn't make a noticable lump? I just really want her to eat. Also, right now her hot side temp is at 85 and her humidity is at 50 should I increase any of these to help her out?

Sorry that this is so long I just want all the advice I can get.

Stop handling the snake.
You are stressing it out.
Stop taking picures of it.
You are stressing it out.
Do not watch TV with your snake.
You are stressing it out.

The snake is in a new environment.
Leave it alone and let it adjust.
Make sure it has the proper temperature gradient and hide spots.

Wait at least 5 days before trying to feed it again.
While waiting get Kathy Love's or Don Soderberg's book on Corn Snakes and read it.

There's no point in asking for advice if you're not going to follow it.

Read as many boos as you can they help alot

If the warm side temp is 85 at the very SURFACE of the container that makes contact with the snake, that is fine, as long as the cooler side is in the mid-to high 70's so it can also escape the higher temps when it needs to.

Tim Spuckler was absolutely SPOT-ON with what he mentioned, as all of us have decades of experience with corns and many other types of snakes. You need to STOP messing with it and let it settle in and quite stressing it out. The snake only "seems" like it is okay with "watching TV" with you, and you are like a huge monster in it's eyes. Snakes will often 'tolerate' handling and human interaction, not enjoy it as many think. Some do tolerate it FAR better than others. The most important thing is getting it comfortable enough in it's environment to feed, not interact and "watch" TV..

Also, yes, that's a good thing that it has pooped and the lump has gone away. Now please just let the stressed snake HIDE as it would in nature, then in a couple days place a large F/T'd (room temp) pinky or two in front of the preferred hide entrance hole at night, then go away and leave it all ALONE AND DARK!

Also, another great trick to get them really worked up and into "feeding-mode" is to tear the entire snout off the pinkie real good after it thaws. This allows the very fresh, moist tissue scent to come out of the rodent. Often when bagged and frozen for a while, they can tend to lose a good bit of their natural scent, and often times tearing the face off, or "braining" the thawed rodent gets an awesome feeding response going.

Anyway, please do these things to the letter and quit messing with the snake if you want it to feed!! All the things we mentioned are EXTREMELY important to keep in mind!!!

cheers, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Good advice from both Tim, and Doug. I would just add that the reason someone suggested offering a pinky is, that sometimes a pinky will entice a snake to eat that has been refusing meals. Once the snake is eating pinkies consistently, then you can up the size to fuzzies, then hoppers, and larger mice. I know many people are dead against feeding live, but a live pinky many times will do the trick. The snake probably is stressed from being moved, then handled too often, too fast, and having to watch re-runs. Just kidding about the re-runs, but you get the picture I hope. Good luck, get The CornSnake Manual!
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

I am reading the Kathy Love book. And I haven't handled my snake for a couple of days trying to listen. As far as the pictures go I only took those pictures that one time to figure out what type of morph she was. And so you're saying I should continue to not hold her or anything until she starts to eat regularly but I really want her to fed in a seperate container so she doesn't think that my hand=food. but should I just fed her in her cage until she eats reguarly and then when she does I can then start to fed her in a seperate container? And right now she is exploring her new environment alot and she isn't hiding like she was before.

Just keep the handling to a minimum. If you put her in a bag, or some other container to feed her, you'll have to pick her up, just keep the handling to a minimum. You want her to start eating regularly, that is the priority for now.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

I'm going to try and fed her a pinkie tonight How will I know if She has had enough

Pinkies are VERY small meals for that particular snake, but seeing if it eats anything at all is the thing you want to see. If it eats one, offer another one or two of the same type it accepted. You optimumly want to see a slight visual BULGE in the mid-section, as it looked like just prior to you owning it.

Remember,...DO NOT mess with it after it has eaten. Not even a couple days after it has eaten. You want to get it eating on a consistent basis. That is what matters here. Everything else like being handled and "watching" TV can gradually come much later on when it is feeding well and settled in much better. More importantly, you don't want the snake regurgitating from stress, because they easily can when they have a full belly of food. They regurge to lighten the load and to make the predator (you) attracted to the expelled meal as they slither off. This is what they do in nature.

Here are examples of what sized prey works well in comparison to the snake's body size once it has accepted any of the smaller meals you have to offer it. This is a hatchling Everglades Ratsnake, but it still applies to corns just the same. Note the very visible bulge at mid-belly. If the prey is not large enough to see an obvious slight bulge similar to that, then it is too small and a couple should be given to help accomodate for the lack of size.

Here is a kingsnake eating a very easily-managed meal.

Thin snakes should never be given large meals, but should gradually be worked up over a period of several smaller meals to make sure their system can process them. It is like giving a very thin, malnutritioned child in Somalia a huge 4 course meal and expect it to be okay afterwards.. Please remember what was said earlier about the warmer temps on ONE SIDE only of the cage in the mid-80's that helps the snake to digest, and the cooler ambient end of the cage in the mid-70's so it can escape the warmth for digesting meals to conserve it's energy and body mass. This is extremely important for you to keep in mind. Without proper warmth to digest when needed, the meals will literally putrify (rot) in their gut and they will regurgitate. This literally poisons their system from the rancid bacteria and then the snake's health is immediately going in complete reverse. They can easily die if the proper measures are not taken immediately to prevent further regurges.

Here is another meal that is easily managed. Now I gave these king two or three of these at a time, but they have a faster metabolism and I am very experienced and made absolutely sure their environment would support those sized meals to prevent any regurge issues. Your corn would do fine on just one in comparison to it's size every 4 or five days once it gets eating reliably and it's internal organs are used to processing food with some slightly smaller meals.

Don't give it any meals nearly this large in comparison. This was a big female and I know what her outer limits were as to what she was capable of handling. This retired breeder mouse was HUGE and she could just barely get it down.

Stick to something like this for a few meals to make sure all is well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Those pictures were extremely helpful. She did eat I put one frozen/thawed pinkie mouse in her cage just to see if she would take it. She had it gone before I could walk out of the room. I didn't really see much of a bulge at all so I offered her another f/t'd pinkie mouse which again was gone just as fast. I thought that would be good enough and in about 4 or so days offer her another meal. I need to get a temp gage on the cool side but her hot side is at 82 degrees right now. Should I make it a bit warmer while she is digesting? Also, the pinkie mice didn't really give her a bulge like shown in the photos. Should I upgrade her the next time I feed her?

Yes, definitely upgrade the size of the prey. Your snake is gobbling those small pinkies down like they are peanuts, and I knew from looking at it that it should be on larger sized prey in the large fuzzy range. But now that you know it will eat, that's what matters at the present moment. When your snake can't gobble them down in a heart-beat like that and it has to work a bit at it some to get it down and leaves a noticeable bulge in the belly, it's is a good indicator of the prey being the right size. As time goes by, make sure you are always graduating up the prey size every so often to accomodate for the snake's growth too. small pinkies, large pinkies, fuzzies, hoppers, weanlings, adults, and X-large adults. All of these categories can vary in size, so the size is more important than what a particular store or company calls them. You can sometimes get HUGE, FAT fuzzies that are larger than someone else's "hoppers", it just all depends. Yours should be on fuzzies that leave a nice bulge, then go from there as it grows.

Yes, Anywhere from 82-86 on the one end ONLY at the very surface the snake's belly is making contact, and an ambient temp at the opposite end in the mid-upper 70's. As long as there is this needed temp gradient as mentioned, it can go back and forth as needed at any given time. Yes, you definitely cannot guess at the temps, you definitely need to get an accurate thermometer, temp gun, or probe to closely monitor the temps and tweek if necessary. Just make sure the cool end is indeed in the cooler temps of the mid to high 70's (comfortable human room temp) so it can move away from the 82-86 heat after it digests. As long as there is a nice low, dark hide placed on both ends, it will move about and be able to hide and feel good and secure while seeking optimal temps. Also, a little plastic container with a hole cut in it and filled with moist sphagnum moss is good too for a humidity if it chooses as well. This can help greatly with shedding if the humidity isn't high enough otherwise.

Go grab an inexpensive cornsnake book at the store too. They are very inexpensive, but are priceless regarding their basic husbandry needs and many other useful things.

Glad it ate, that is great. Now get a cheap book and read up some. I would suggest something like Kathy Love's book here....

cheers, ~Doug

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

.

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That is the exact book that I bought, I have been reading it. I skipped the breeding chapters and sometimes its easier to know how to upgrade when someone shows pictures like you did. It was extremely helpful. I am a very visual learner. Someone told me that she looked dehydrated so I have been soaking her every 3 days for 5 min in tempid water. What I do is get warm water and let it sit until its cooled down just a touch. I also got another book called Corn & Rat snakes by Philip Purser

Yeah, dehydration could have been a possibility initially along with it being underfed, but you could stop the soaking now.
All it needs now is a waterbowl and a humid-hide and it will be fine along with it eating. Good on getting the book and reading it too, there is everything you need in there if it is comprehended, and Kathy Love is good at conveying information.

Just keep all these things in mind and keep referring to the book periodically. Not handling it and allowing it to digest it's meals in peace is the most important thing.

cheers, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

When will I know when she has adjusted to her environment to were I can hold more?

When will I know when she has adjusted to her environment enough to wear i can hold her more?

After a few more feedings and you see there are no issues, but don't handle it all the time and especially before two days after it eats so it can digest. Limit the handlings to maybe 15-20 minutes once a day or so. I'm sure Kathy addresses this in her book as well, even though I don't own that particular snake book.

If after holding it for a bit, and you notice that it is no longer sitting on your arm seemingly "enjoying" the body warmth (thermoregulating) and wanting to always crawl somewhere else in a hurry, that is definitely the time to put it back and let it be a snake.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

First listen to the others. Tim and the rest have a HUGE amount of experience.

Personally I have been fascinated since I was a kid and had a 5' water monitor that would not eat anything. Yet I had 12 other large monitors that well they ate like monitors. Toss in dealing with 100s of snakes and lizards over the years I have dealt with that do not feed. I am so interested in this that I bought some hognose that I figured I might have feeding issues. And I sure did and even lost a couple. But since I find this issue so captivating maybe I have noticed a few things I can add to the topic.

I have had more luck in small paper bags for baby corns. I think it’s due to the corners. In time the pinky FT will end up there and if you watch snakes in a container with corners once they get there they try to dig their nose in at times. And since the pinky can be right there I think there is some reason that gets them to eat.

This topic related to deli cups and is a difficult one since snakes do seem to react differently to different containers. I was never a fan of taller pint size deli cups for feeding. I liked the 1” tall ½ pints. If you watch the snake in the dark they spend a lot of time trying to climb the wall of the 1-pint deli. So I would always use the ½ pint delis. BUT I have noticed some baby snakes seem agitated not being able to raise their head higher in the ½ delis. Yes I have spent way way to many hours watching non-feeding baby snakes over the years. So generally I prefer the lower delis if you are using delis to feed.

As strange as it sounds, I also prefer the deli cup upside down. Especially in the taller cups. As the snake cannot climb the side and lean on it as easily and they spend far more time on the bottom roaming where the pinky is. And yes I have had just a couple snakes (back when I was helping at a pet shop) eat in a flipped deli and would not in a deli in the normal position. It’s so easy why not try it.
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Thanks for reading.
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com
HerpChat

Silence is golden. I have had a few personal snakes that would not eat over the years and when I would take then to the shop they ate rather quickly. I have never tried to prove this but the only real difference is sounds. Your TV Stereo etc can’t be good influences and I would love to find out for sure if there is a relationship. But certainly a quiet area would be best. Bass can’t travel long but it can travel thru almost anything.

I know this one really sounds crazy, but I had luck with some baby rat snakes by getting the tail of a FT pink caught in the lid of a deli cup. For this I set the deli cup in the normal position so the snake had to climb the side to get it. And this one I saw the snake eat or grab the pink hanging one inch off the bottom of the deli cup. And his prior feeding he ignored the pinks on the bottom.

I know they sound wacky but I have seen other herper try even stranger things to get their herps to feed.

Good luck.
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Thanks for reading.
Tom

www.HerpZillA.com
HerpChat

The reason I told you to try pinkies is that we have no idea how you are caging the snake, temps, etc. So, a large meal could be trouble. Small meals are best until the snake is comfortable and feeding without issue, then jump up to larger meals. Also, a snake that is stressed from a move will sometimes be enticed by a pinkie moreso then a bigger meal. I'm glad to see that the snake fed. You did right IMO by trying thawed pinks first and leaving the snake alone.