Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ECCM (Alan B) was nice enough to send me this photo on what a perfect baby eastern indigo's ventral side should look like. Before anyone buys an indigo/cribo, make sure the belly scales are clean. No split scales anterior to the vent and evenly split scales posterior (below) the vent. Scales should look smooth and should not have a "ruffled" appearance. While skeletal deformities may be due to high incubation temps, I think its well accepted that most Drymarchon breeders think scale deformities are due to inbreeding.

Do you think mine is most likely doomed? His swelling sort of went down after soaking recently with powdered sugar paste, but he still has his junk hanging out a bit. Due to the crazy dog issue in our house, my funds are heavily depleted and I am waiting on a couple pay checks to get back to par so I can take him (indigo not the dog) in to a vet, but in all honesty...with what most have somewhat speculated about internal issues he probably has and with his scale tell signs (see what I did there) of inbreeding due to split scales, is he better off being put down if an agonizing slow death is not avoidable...or does he have a chance at a decent life of many years? Not afraid of the truth here...would rather do whats best for him rather than whats best for me.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

i think we can only speculate. like everyone said, it's not a bad prolapse. i personally don't think it'll resolve without surgical help. can he live with it? i dunno... i think the best you can do without getting a vet to reduce it and suture it in place is to keep it well hydrated and feed it a varied diet.

for the longest time, i couldn't afford indigos either. instead of paying less money for indigos with skeletal/possible health issues, i opted for black tails and yellow tails. i personally think an adult male black tail and certainly a 10 foot male yellow tail is just as impressive (if not more) than an adult florida indigo. just take a look at the picts of the adults below. of course a large male rubidus (mexican red tail) prolly takes the cake when it comes to drymarchons

Well, it should only be a couple weeks or less until I will have some funds again to be able to get him into a vet. Have been soaking him and got him off the aspen and onto newspaper. I know aspen is not as ideal anyhow but he has always loved to bury himself so I let him be with it, but now with this issue his fun time is over and newspaper boring-ness it is

He is dang picky with his food, loves mice, hates rats. I put one of each side by side in his cage last night, the rat being first...he sniffed the rat and turned away, put a jumbo mouse right next to the rat and when he came back for another sniff he drank the mouse right down and left the rat. I think my picky eating tendencies has rubbed off on him ha!

And I am with you for sure on the Cribo's! I was having a love affair in my mind of a solid huge black snake (shaddup in advance you sickos!) and ignored the cribo's which in looking back was something I should have thought twice about. If I lose my boy, I will happily go this route as my wife wont ever let me spend a grand on a pet snake lol! And yeah those rubidus are gorgeous monsters!!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

well, fortunately for the indigo lover, there's seems to be a bunk load that was produced this year. prices should be way below 1k. hopefully, the babies that were produced weren't too inbred. would definitely ask for lineage information if i was buyer. would also spend the time (~2 months) to get an interstate commerce license first ($100). the interstate commerce license is a double edge sword. it requests u to specify who you're buying it from so it obligates the buyer to that seller(s). but fws does allow the buyer to change the sources of acquisition. it didn't cost any additional $$$ and they were nice enough to accomodate my changes.

i think as a collective group, it's the responsibility of the drymarchon breeders to undo the damage done by inbreeding over the past decade. falling prices will definitely help the situation as it makes it less likely to get unscrupulous breeders who are in it just for the $$$. my two cents

Markus, I sent you an email earlier, but in case you don't get it, I thought I should post a message on here. I do not think that your snake is destined for a slow, agonizing death, and I would hesitate to conclude that he has a serious internal issue until a vet can prove it to you. While he may feel some minor discomfort, I doubt he is in any real pain, and I would say that he has a better that even chance of pulling through. Until you can get him to a vet, I think the things that have been suggested are good ideas (sugar bath, keeping him super clean, apply neosporin, etc). It would be good if he could eat a small meal here and there to keep up his strength, but if he doesn't don't panic; I have a couple that go most of the winter with little or no food intake. I would exhort you to persevere.

I think I already shared this story with you, but I'll recount it here for others who might benefit. I had a similar prolapse issue to yours with a visually flawless specimen on June 10, 2006. I remember the day quite vividly since it happened to be the day of my wedding. My vet determined that the prolapse was a product of inflammation due to some kind of infection (we couldn't determine the exact place/type) that was identified by blood tests. We administered several rounds of injectable antibiotics (with the help of my new wife), diligently applied ointments every day, and kept him impeccably clean for somewhere around two months. Right about the time I was ready to throw in the towel, the problem abruptly fixed itself. I don't know if it was due to his immune system taking over or if all the hard work finally caught up, but he never had a recurrence over the next several years that I had him.

I know this is super difficult, but I guess the moral of the story is not to give up because you never know when the tide could turn in your favor. We're pulling for you and your snake.

Robert Harper

Thanks for the email Robert! Much appreciated! I am elated with hope that he will pull through this and have a full happy life! We will be seeing a vet here in the next couple weeks once the paychecks fill the ol money tank back up

Good to know he most likely isn't suffering with pain...it does not look like he is to me either...but since snakes dont have too much of a way to show they are in pain I wasn't certain. Am continuing with the soaks, the powdered suger, and am putting Polysporin on the area too. The switch to newspaper seems like it is helping the area to be less inflamed since the aspen was sticking to it like crazy and that was NOT good. He continues to take meals like he always has...and yes I am going to offer smaller meal sizes and less often. He seems very content and is relaxing in his home with the changes. So these all seem to be good signs indeed

Thanks for sharing you story of the similar issue you dealt with like I am going through with mine! That is encouraging for sure!!

We are keeping the hope and are not giving up on this fellow! Thanks to all of you out there for the support and encouragement!!!! We will press on with him the same way we are with our poor puppy. Until they cant go on anymore, we are not giving up on either of them!
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Alan sent me a good pic example too (healthy non inbred pic of tail/vent underside). This one is a little closer up for further reference vantage points to have as a resource for new possible owner/buyers.

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

yes, he has this sick fetish of taking photos of his snakes vents! hahahaha.. j/k!

>>yes, he has this sick fetish of taking photos of his snakes vents! hahahaha.. j/k!

Ha!!! Snake porn
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

Thanks to Alan B. for those photos. Of course I immediately checked the underside of my yearling male I got from Steve Fuller. My male is perfect; thanks to Steve. I am building a small group of eastern indigos and I want to do it right this time. It is very heartening to receive some guidance from the pros. My male has been thriving on a diet of quail, mice, and yearling corn snakes (oops).
My first go-around I went at it blindly and just bought the first pair I could find. I had to get on a waiting list for a pair of likely siblings that ended up being dwarfed. There are some great indigos out there, but you have to do your homework and you have to locate knowledgeable breeders.

yes, i have some steve fuller indigos too. he is one of the few breeders that gives u good lineages on his stock. it's so important to know the lineages of the stock because there has been no wc genes flowing into the captive population for almost two decades now. even with different breeders most of their stock is somewhat related. markus, i would feed ur prolapsed indigo smaller meals and vary it with chicks to prevent the prolapse from worsening.

I get ALL my cribos from East Coast Cribo Master (AlanB). He stays kind of low key and rarely advertises but EVERY Dry breeder knows he is the number one breeder of the cribos in this country. Has alot of great Youtube videos on husbandry/his collection. With collaborators, he may be venturing to assist this issue with inbred Eastern Indigos. Thank goodness!