Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Should not exist... as they are sick and dying.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Wow, who ever said, no monitor can be tame. In most cases they are very very very tame and curious animals. And can be very very trusting. They also naturally form pair bonds. Which means that can include you.

Sick and dying has nothing to do with being tame. Yes, undermetabolized monitors, appear tame when their not. Under metabolized monitors will become sick and die.

The problem is many people and you were included, called their sick and dying monitor tame. Whether it was tame or not was not the question. It was sick and dying, and that bore out, as it died shortly after I told you it was sick. Not because it was tame, but how it acted.

Lastly, you seem to have some underlying agenda(most do) so you are compelled to say this stuff, which is fine, Your just a little premature.

YOur history, you kept a Sav. for a period of time and all was well in your mind, then it died from poor support.

THen you regrouped and started again, your doing well, but again, to soon to tell. I do wish you all the luck in the world, but have some patience.

The truth is, monitors are the easiest dang things to raise in the world, the problems occur after that. Your not there yet. The measure of your husbandry has yet to reveal itself.

And I really do wish you well. Cheers

It's taking some time, but I'm beginning to understand you.

Tireless hours of trying to help stubborn people would make the kindest of people calloused, I know I get cranky with folks too.

I'll take what you said as a compliment and leave it at that.

Yes I do have an underlying agenda, if I can save even one Sav from suffering the fate of my last.. then I am a happy man.

as I see more and more people building big strong sealed cages and filling them with dirt, I smile at my screen.

And get this, those slender killing machines are eating (GASP) rodents. the thing is, they can actually metabolize that food and not get fat, they burn the fuel as energy, and that's a very good thing. They currently bask at 147 and love it. (Measured with a PE2 temp gun.)

"Tame" and trust are not the same, as I bet anything that if I leashed up one of these beasts, they would rip the cord right out of my hand as soon as their feet hit the ground.

If I want "obedience" I have dogs.. If I want to watch a primeval predator, I stare into my monitor cage.

easy as that...

As for my husbandry, it's a thousand percent better than most of the world, I'm just sorry it took the death of a lizard to get there, but if I recall you lost a few along the way too.

to achieve the sweet taste of "success" one must first swallow the bitter pill of failure...

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

hi Again,

Your progressing very well, but that screen thing is based on longterm. While I am sure its working for you now, when winter comes, that will change. If your cage is indoors and is heated, it will that cause the The beef jerky syndrome.

But your right any rule you/we make about husbandry does not fit all situations. Newbies want A or Z, trouble is, monitors do not work that way.

Longterm, you better be willing to adjust your husbandry as needed. As monitors absoluteld change as they mature. Good luck and keep up the good work

Have some coffee or something.. I meant computer screen A.K.A. Monitor. That display thingy you look at every day.

Right Church wrong pew sir.

As for my Jerky machine, I have to wonder how good jerky would be when my humidity goes through the roof at night when I shut off the lights. Open the door and that air belts you in the face.

Bet ya never even watched the video, because if you did, you never would have just said that.

This soil look dry to you?

Hahaha, Cheers.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

your right, I did not watch the vid, Sorry, but I see monitors daily and lots of them, for over two decades. My bad.

Back to the beef jerky machine. Moist soil or water bowls do not prevent dehydration. Not in the least.

But then if you don't have air leaks, you do not have a problem, congrats. Cheers

They have a burrow network that goes from one end of the box to the next.

I made burrows in the beginning, but they backfilled them better than a professional landscaper.

My bet is they know best where to dig, not me.

Technical data...

all seams are sealed with carpentry grade hot melt glue, the wood is sealed with 5 coats of dutch boy latex floor sealer, the front window is a shower door with rubber gaskets.

Substrate is fully bio active, no turds to clean, the bugs break it down.

Ambient air ranges from 80-100 degrees, basking 147 degrees, humidity between 60% and 88%.

Two basking spots, one up a tree, one at ground level.

All heavy Items are securely bolted down.

and the icing on the cake, the whole box is double walled and stuffed with the insulation I saved from all my Rodent Pro orders over the years.

Had a power failure for almost 24 hours, and the temps never fell below 80.

These kids are thriving better than 99% of the other unfortunate lizards kept in the US.

and just for the hell of it, a 4 foot UVB 5.0 tube in the middle of the cage.

With these conditions, I have 2 bottomless pits that are eating me out of house and home, yet remain slim and fit. Peak growth rate at 1 inch per week.

I say they have a bright future ahead of them.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Hi Wayne,

I think your doing great, but if I was to help you, it would be to get you to think in a different way.

For instance, you give me stats(your cage and conditions) as if they mean something. And they actually do, but only a little bit.

Once some VARNAID group was publishing a paper on varanids and they wanted me to write an articule. They sent me a letter which outlined what I was suppose to write. It was a common scientific outline. You know, the approach(i forgot the actual term) of what I wanted to happen, the tools(materials) like cage stuff you just wrote, temps and all such. Then of course the results at the end. Which are suppose to match the first paragraph.

I wrote back and said, yet but thats not what I want to write about. Of course they said, but you have to write that stuff, its what is important. Of course, I disagreed.

I then wrote back. SIrs, no offense, but i can breed them in a box, in a trashcan, on top my head, on the roof, outdoors, indoors, both, In wooden cages, in fiberglass cages, in wire cages. With no UV, with UV. with photoperiod/without it, with lites on 24/7, etc etc etc etc. Those things are NOT important.

What is important is behavior. all those tools are only to support behavior. All manner of tools can and does support behavior.

The key to understand behavior a little better is, Behavior always changes, it changes and grows as the animals change and grow. The problems are NOT now, if you even have the most minimal of caging or the best. They are always tomorrow.

What that means is, the very best of all cages is, one with a huge door. So you can easily take everything out and put in new stuff, you know, to accomodate the changing behavior of growing progressing healthy monitors.

Wayne, I have hope for you, only because your driven to succeed. No offense, but a blind one handed monkey can raise up varanids. They are without question the easist to achieve RAPID growth.

THe problem is and always has been when they change gears(behavior) This is where SNAKE people fall flat on their faces. They are so use to, one setup and let it go. Monitors have resisted that over many decades. Monitors are behaviorally complicated, which means, one size does not fit all.

The Key to your success is not that cage, instead its how well you change and adapt. My warning is, such a strong belief in your cage, is harmful to your changing and adapting. Always think of your cage as temporary, as it may well REQUIRE changes and QUICKLY.

As mentioned, your doing great, but whats going on now is not the critical part. Whats coming is. Just don't be set in your ways. Congrats and have a great day.

THANK YOU....Well said,
Wow, who ever said, no monitor can be tame. In most cases they are very very very tame and curious animals. And can be very very trusting. They also naturally form pair bonds. Which means that can include you.

Sick and dying has nothing to do with being tame. Yes, undermetabolized monitors, appear tame when their not. Under metabolized monitors will become sick and die.

The problem is many people and you were included, called their sick and dying monitor tame. Whether it was tame or not was not the question. It was sick and dying, and that bore out, as it died shortly after I told you it was sick. Not because it was tame, but how it acted.

Lastly, you seem to have some underlying agenda(most do) so you are compelled to say this stuff, which is fine, Your just a little premature.

YOur history, you kept a Sav. for a period of time and all was well in your mind, then it died from poor support.

THen you regrouped and started again, your doing well, but again, to soon to tell. I do wish you all the luck in the world, but have some patience.

The truth is, monitors are the easiest dang things to raise in the world, the problems occur after that. Your not there yet. The measure of your husbandry has yet to reveal itself.

And I really do wish you well. Cheers

Hello Dekaybrown,

Enjoyed watching that. Those are well heated and their responses are what keepers should be seeing from savs, running, jumping, tripoding, etc.... Best to You- Mike S

Yes indeed, I hear things every day about how well they are doing.

This one blew me away bud...

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Wow! You have beautiful lizards and you're an excellent keeper. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

Those certainly look like beautiful and happy monitors. I think your doing great.

Hi PWilson 1985, appearances can sometimes be deceptive; though one of the Savannah monitors seems to be doing quite well, the other is not, it`s significantly smaller, probably due to the stress from the larger animal, and growth appears to have been quite moderate. Obviously continued stress leads to ill health, but hopefully Wayne will be able to make the necessary adjustments to improve the situation (I`m absolutely sure that`s his intention).