Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Gozer/Zuul litter has shed, and they are looking good!

My partner and I have been thinking about what to call this type of aberrant phase, and we came up with "Wipeout". Figure the extreme ones can be called "Extreme Wipeout", and if there was ever one produced with no spots on the back at all (came close in this litter) it could be called a "Total Wipeout". What do you think?

A couple of the Extremes even have a bit of lateral striping going on which is sweeeet! I'm really loving this litter!

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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

I think it is interesting that the head pattern is completely in tact... while the rest of the body is all wacky patterned.

I like the 'wipe out' phrase but I thought that you had all ready decided to call them RDP (Reduced Dorsal Pattern).
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John Wiseman
www.rainbowsbydesign.com

18.30 BRBs (as of 6-20-2012)
3.8 others

I was calling them reduced dorsal pattern as a bandaid until something better, and less awkward could be thought up.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Come'on John, I know you've been around long enough to understand that she's a Lady and she can change her mind as many times as she wants to! LOL

Charlie

Hahahaha!!! Darn right!
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Stunning snakes. So what is the inheritance pattern of this trait?

I actually like the RDP name better. It more accurately describes the trait. Sadly the ball python world, and to a lesser extent then Boa constrictor world has propagated the trend of naming traits after something that is not easily unrelated to the look of the animal. Here I can somewhat see that you have "wiped out" the dorsal patter, but I still think RDP is better.

Here is my issue with the other two names, total and extreme wipe out... Why? If these are a homozygous form of an incomplete-dominant trait, I can see calling them something related but different to highlight the genetic different, however, if it is not, and all of these snakes carry the same genetic coding for this trait, then calling the total and ultra or whatever, would be like people calling pied ball pythons all different names to describe how white they are. Ultra-white pied, ni-white pied, etc. Or grading their anerythristics, slightly brown anerys, or ultra grey anerys. If you are set on the name wipeout, then stick with that, then simply grade the animals. High expression and low expression.

Maybe what I am saying makes no sense, but I see little benefit in naming a single trait multiple things.
Right, that is my morning grump out of the way. I need coffee, then back to writing my lecture for this morning.

Great looking snakes by the way.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

I see your point, and maybe Total Wipeout is going too far... but with the variation Extreme Wipeout says quite a bit if there were no pictures in front of someone.

I don't get it. Dave randomly pops out something unique and awesome, calls it Candy Stripe and everyone rejoices. I've produced these twice now, so they are obviously genetic in some way.... I try to call them something and people snort. WTF?
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

haha. I see your point - candy stripe isn't the greatest name either for description. I think you should get to name the trait and I like the name wipeout for the trait... the "hets" seem to wipe away normal patterning. I see Warren's point as well though... there are so many random names in BPs and Bc that it's impossible to hear a trait name and figure out what it'd look like without seeing it... Huffman's, Camo, Russo, Lace... you get the point.

I would like to see you breed them back to see if there is a homozygous form of the morph, if it is indeed a dominant trait.

It is possible that the wipeouts are the homozygous expression of a recessive trait correct? I ask because I haven't seen the sire and dam.
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Chris Carille
Marist College, NY
Department of Biology
Chris Carille Photography - carillephoto.com
Garden of Eden Exotics - edenexotics.weebly.com
http://nyexotics.blogspot.com/

I see why some people may not like names (especially in the BP world) that do not describe a trait at all. However, in my opinion it makes it more fun. Having strictly descriptive names gets (IMO) boring, and sometimes those names can get very long... just look at Leopard Geckos. Their names are so long that they have to abbreviate into code.

As far as the genetics behind it... It does appear that the less radical ones could be 'hets' that are showing markers. The parents do have an aberrant pattern (male only slightly), but I never would have guessed that they would throw babies like the extremes! Here are pics of the parents:

Gozer (Sire)

Zuul (Dam)

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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Okay, I have time to type out something more serious now than my joking comment about you being a Lady and having the right to change your mind on names as many times as you like...

I don't think he meant don't name it, or even that it wasn't something that couldn't or shouldn't be named, but naming different babies out of the same litter without knowing that their genetic makeup is different, just basing different names on slight variations might be going a little overboard right now. Now if one look turns out to be basically a visual het for the full blown morph(think splash gene in kenyan sand boas if you're aware of that one) then absolutely name them two different things.

From what I can understand with the little I know about this, it does appear that you have shown you can reproduce it, and whether it turns out to be genetic or just hereditary I'm with you 110% with whatever you choose to name it. They're great looking animals and it won't matter if you name it RDP, GHI, Wipeout, or Casper Ugly Moo Moo Pants (yes, there is actually a combo morph ball python named that) they're still going to be some wild crazy hot little animals that have a great WOW factor to them.

Now it's my turn to say that hopefully that made sense and wasn't incoherent babble.

If you want a vote from me, I say go with Wipeout, I like it.

Hope everyone has a wonderful day out there!
Charlie

Thank you Charlie! I understand what you are saying, and I agree for the most part. However, IMO calling the really crazy ones 'Extreme' really just describes the level of erased saddles. I didn't intend to imply it as a special morph apart from the other aberrant ones. Kinda like the Blush vs Extreme Blush BRBs. Not separate mutations, but just an extreme expression of the mutation.

Now if through breeding trials we discover that the ones with aberrant patterning are the hets to the really crazy ones... then the term may take on a new definition.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not saying don't name it whatever you want to name it. Its entirely up to you in that regards. I am simply saying that you are applying names to something when you have not got an understanding of the genetics. Are these variants of a recessive trait, or are they variants of an incomplete dominant in the heterozygous condition. By naming something that may be one trait various prefixes, extreme, total, etc, you are being entirely subjective. So, what you call an extreme may be called a wipeout, or total wipeout by someone else. By calling it a wipeout, we all know what it is. If there is a super form, assuming it is an incomplete dominant trait, then that could be the extreme or total wipeout. Does that make sense? Simply adding too many names to something that is at present unknown in terms of genetics, and will ultimately be used by different breeders differently.

Once again ,great animals.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

Warren, I see what you are saying... apparently I did misunderstand you. I agree I may have gone too far with "Total", though hopefully I get prove out the genetics one way or another.

Thanks for your input!
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Such an awesome litter!!!

Amazing how aberrant some of those patterns are... even when there is a lack of patterning! haha

Beautiful BRBs! Definitely on the top of my favorites list.
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Chris Carille
Marist College, NY
Department of Biology
Chris Carille Photography - carillephoto.com
Garden of Eden Exotics - edenexotics.weebly.com
http://nyexotics.blogspot.com/

Thank you Chris, glad you like them!
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Outstanding work Aubrey, while i love them now, i cant wait to see them in another generation or 2.
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Dave

Ive given up counting how many rainbows i have, but its enough to deplete my credit card every rodent order....
Im an aussie in an arctic environment
Helsinki, Finland

Thank you Dave! Though this is the second litter I've produced, it essentially is still the first generation. Pretty amazing start, and I also can't wait to see the line in further generations! Lots of plans for these guys. Gotta breed some color in there too.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Whatever you name them they look great!!!!!

I like Wipeout (cue the Beach Boys soundtrack here), also like RDP.

Wipeout is more catchy but as Warren stated RDP is more descriptive. Bottom line is it's YOUR choice to name them WHATEVER you want.

p.s. Please don't go backwards in your naming scheme.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for the support on the name, Dave! I do think it is catchier than RDP. Haha, Beach Boys.... funny for some reason I didn't think of that!

Backwards? Are you are referring to my original name for the line?
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

YW, I agree a catchy name is better than a boring descriptive one.

Plus, there can be and are multiple stripe lines popping up from unrelated sources, each with it's own characteristics. Yes some are similar to others and may be related. Others are clearly not related. Having a unique name cinches the claim and is a great marketing tool. After all, none of us want to keep "all" of our babies....
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Not sure if that is what Dave was referring to but moving forward with the 'wipeout' name would be much better that the pre-RDP name

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John Wiseman
www.rainbowsbydesign.com

18.30 BRBs (as of 6-20-2012)
3.8 others

I totally agree Cliff!
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John Wiseman
www.rainbowsbydesign.com

18.30 BRBs (as of 6-20-2012)
3.8 others

I agree with Cliff on the naming of unproven Morph being dangerous.

And even though I am guilty of it myself with my Candy Stripes, I do believe them to be genetic and I have not sold any so no harm.

I do feel with anything that looks like it's genetic it's appropriate to name the trait. BUT, until it's proven, the disclaimer must be repeatedly made that it is NOT proven. Even more so when individual animals are being sold.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

amazing animals, period. no matter what you name them! something to be proud of! Congrats!

Thank you very much!
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Thank you Cliff! And yes, that makes perfect sense, and I completely agree with you. I've seen this sort of thing happen with hybrid snakes as well.

I know that I will make sure any who buy this line from me is aware that it is unproven as of yet... but like you said, nobody can control what happens from there, lol.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

I'm not sure how many times I just had a "WOW!!" moment looking through those pictures! Congrats again on a wild looking litter!

Charlie

Thanks again, Charlie!! I am super excited about these! Gonna be hard limiting my holdbacks.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com