Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Made some changes to the dirt.

Stirred in some play sand.....

ran the mix through a screen..

filters out the junk..

gives a nice texture, light, breathable and easy to burrow.

The seal of approval...

the last trip back to the woods..

all set up...

and a cool lizard face....

OK... The first layer, too sandy for my liking, the second batch was more top soil less sand..

more...

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Very nice, but monitors can and do dig in just about any soil type. The seal of approval comes much later. I hope you recieve it.

Reading your post and from past conversations, its apparent that your new soil, is meeting your seal of approval. which is wonderful

Later as they become mature you will find out if it indeed meets their approval. This is very important to understand.

You learned the hard way the effects of longterm dehydration. You learned the ill effects were based on time. So it is with soil types. Cheers

I ll never forget when i discovered my pilbaras liked their soil.. alas it was only once i cleaned out the tub and found the old eggs... Doh! Oh well, live and learn with any luck.
Hey frank! i finally got back on line after a lengthy hiatus. been working on tunes. i finally worked up the nerve to do vocals on a couple even! I gotta call ya to catch up on the time!
Guy

Looks like you've been busy, Wayne. Great job!

Lizards of all kinds in the wild are able to keep themselves clean. Rarely will you see lizards in the wild caked with mud or covered with a layer of dust. When they are found dirty, they have just come up from hibernation, got caught in a flood, or they are sick and/or dying. Rarely will you find a wild lizard that is shedding, or have stuck sheds, unless something is wrong.
Contrast this to captivity. A captive lizard that is not able to keep itself clean has something wrong, and that something is usually the conditions it is being kept in.
Wayne, your lizards are dirty. Put them in a bath tub and wash them off. All the dirt you see in the tub is not supposed to be on the lizard. The way the lizard looks after a bath is the way it should look all the time if your conditions are right. In the wild, lizards have the opportunity to go find what they need, including the correct dirt and borrowing conditions. In captivity, it is up to the keeping to figure this out and provide the correct conditions. In my opinion, a clean lizard is one indicator that the keeping is getting something right.
Bill Cobb

now that there is sand content in the dirt, it don't stick.

Thank you for the observation, and the eloquently worded reply.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Hi Bill Cobb, I`d like to respectfully ask how many Varanids you`ve actually seen in the wild (in situ)?
You say they don`t have dirt/dust on them, at least for any ammount of time, and they aren`t observed shedding, either? I`ve personally seen MANY wild Varanids (Australia, India, Africa) that didn`t look particularly "clean and bright", and CLEARLY had unshed skin patches on them in different parts of their bodies (perfectly normal, NOT necessarily a sign of ill health at all)!?
You`re advising Wayne to physically bathe his monitors, one of which is still extremely nervous, apparently because of the other animal dominating it (it`s also significantly smaller), presumably for the same reason, so forced handling at this stage in my opinion would have a very detrimental effect on the animal`s already compromised health.

Those same thoughts were just dancing inside my head while I was out back netting minnows.

Every picture I have seen of Daniels were dirty looking Savs.

I have a friend who works for one of the importers who gets the task of de-ticking the fresh wild caught animals, and he said they are caked in dirt upon arrival.

No worries mate, I never planned on tossing my Boscs in the bathtub, it would be quite pointless anyway, since they will just go digging in their cage when I put them back.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

I used to have quite a few pics of wild monitors, but lost them when my computer crashed a few years ago, but my memory is still intact (almost), I know what I`ve seen!
They often ARE quite dirty (in the wild), obviously if it rains or they go into water it will wash off, but they`ll get dirty again quite quickly, just as you say your two will (they have no shame)....

Exactly right and has been my experience both in nature and in captivity.

Which was the point of my reply, while the monitors did dig in that substrate, they were also making a mud out of their water bowl which is the lizards attempting to get that dirt off them. Again, that was already mentioned.

The real point is, Wayne would rather HATE, and fight, then actually listen to his animals, or to people only trying to help him.

What I find very odd is, if I am wrong, and hes truly right, why would he care what I say.

When I started with varanids, I was experienced with many reptile types both in captivity and nature. If my monitors did what I observe as basic lizard behavior in nature, I did not care what "experts" said to me. But I did not get all NUTS on them until many generations later. After I had recieved proof or verification that this approach worked.

Even then I did not go off on them, they would go off on me. Of course, I have no problem returning that favor.

As I have mentioned many times, I think Wayne has potential, his biggest problem is his anger issues. They are misplaced.

When his approach is in error, he gets mad at a person that informs him what hes observing is questionable. Instead, those errors belong to only him and he really should be upset with himself.

As in, he kicks the gift horse if the gift was not what he wanted.

As it is, Wayne and Paradon, both have no problem passing on poor or unproven information. Then both wonder why so many Savs have to die. Its funny, but the answer is right in front of them.

Paradon keeps saying FRANK there "can" be many ways to do something. Guess what, I am funny aware of that. The point is, I do pick one or more of those ways, while he picks none.

In the end its more about being human or a perfect human. When I was building zoos, many of the projects came out exceptional. I myself cannot build a whole project, its way to large. So I have a crew to help.

Whats odd is, they all want to do the very best, ideal, perfect, etc. The problem was, it did not work that way.

I have to explain on a daily basis, if all of you just do well today, the end result would be GREAT. You do not need to do each step perfect or great or any of that. Just do average or better on a daily basis and the end result will be superior.

That is how it is with monitors, Just cover all the little steps in an average way, doing that results in something exceptional.

Then you have the Waynes of the world, they think they are smart, so they think they have to do better. So they try to do cetain steps BETTER, but fail to do all the steps and fail, they blew their junk on one step. In the end, they fail.

Waynes running around trying to get PERFECT dirt, good luck with that. Theres more to it then the dirt. Theres more to it then a burrow. Cover the steps in an aveage way Wayne and your monitors will be fine. The problem is, you have to know what the steps are. Learn them. Cheers

I do like the enclosure. It looks very natural, though I do have to agree that a few more hides wouldn't hurt. Of course that's assuming that we've even seen everything in the pictures that do show the cage.