Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This may echo some of what I've posted in pieces in other places some...it's been a fun year, Tinley and Daytona were a blast, although more so this year in kind of the enjoyable hang out, check out lots of other stuff, enjoy good company and making new friends kind of way than actual sales from the shows. Tinley especially people just didn't seem to want to turn loose of money at all, there were a lot of people walking around with empty hands instead of carrying deli cups or bags. I still had fun, I'll definitely be looking forward to doing it again next year.

One thing that does seem like has happened this year, way more than I can remember in the past, is lowball offers...not sure why that's been so common this year to get people offering 50% or even 25% of a listed price for something, then act confused when you smile and just say no, not even close. I know it happens, no worries, let it go, just seems like it happens on a regular basis anymore, much more common.

Tinley...I will say one thing I saw there that really made me look twice, was Aubrey's wipeout animals. Aubrey, I think you understand what I meant now...your pictures look great, but they just really jump out at you much more in person. They really are a lot crazier looking live and up close than what I was expecting, huge congrats on discovering those! I would have loved to have brought home a pair of them, just didn't have the cash.

I did pick up a couple of animals there, one little group that puts me back into the hypo brb project. I'm not into naming animals as you all know, but if I did name a little het hypo girl that I picked up from Aubrey, she would probably be named Chomper. We definitely had a bonding session with her teeth and my hands while I was checking her out.

A hypo male and a couple of possible het girls from Trace Hardin, one of the girls is pretty brightly colored and has a bit of a connected dorsal pattern...

Now quickly some bad news, I mentioned "being back in the hypo project", the big hypo girl we now know had something go wrong during ovulation that we weren't able to detect. Some of the "eggs" ruptured during ovulation, basically glued her reproductive tracts together and then infection began setting in. We found this by doing surgery when technology wasn't giving us a good enough look to know what was going on. I had been feeling her every few weeks and towards the end of august began feeling a hardened lump in her. While she was still under the decision was made to put her down, so she is no longer with us.

It was great meeting you too. I am glad you like the hypo and are ready to work with that project again. Thanks for the awesome Anery, he's eating like a champ! I know what you mean about people not buying at the show. I was with two other guys that didn't sell a thing the whole weekend. I did OK but I think I had the right product for the market. Nothing too high-end, pretty $100 snakes and some oddball lizards and frogs. I think the anerys you had pander to a small niche of keepers, they're spread so few and far between internet sales are the only way to reach them. Don't get discouraged, you had some awesome animals.

Thanks Trace, glad that little guy is doing good for you! All the animals I picked up, the trio from you plus the one from Aubrey have all fed every time I've offered, I'm definitely happy with what I brought back.

I'm not discouraged so much as I think just trying to figure out what's up with the show market anymore, especially when at two of what should be in the group of biggest shows of the year, just really didn't seem to move much. The two guys I was set up with, one did decent, one didn't sell a thing (although I don't think he had anything under 1k either hardly).

What I wasn't seeing though, and I agree about a lot of cheaper animals moving usually, was that I didn't see that. People come in, wander around and look buy a few things, wander some more and then leave...so I'm used to seeing, even if people aren't buying from our table, people walking by with new pets especially after a few hours into a show, this year it just didn't seem that way.

Glad you did ok there!

Charlie

What you mention, sales being slow and lowball offers are becoming more and more common at shows. With the internet serious buyers can and do shop online where they can find a large variety of individual animals to choose from. At shows there are many more species available but much fewer individuals of each. Funny thing was at my last show I was pulling animals off the table to fill internet orders at full asking price. In some cases the exact same animals I had people offering me way less than asking price.

What I see at the shows are more of the impulse buyers and serious local buyers that come straight to my table to be able to pick out and take delivery in person over ordering online via pictures.

The shows are still a lot of fun but not huge money makers like I hear they were in the distant past before the internet.

Sorry to hear you lost your big hypo girl. Unfortunately a reality of breeding. Glad you are back on track with some new acquisitions.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks Dave

Shows are definitely fun, but you may be right that the internet is having a bigger impact on shows for sales than what I'd have thought it would. I do think at times I'm still going through a bit of "culture shock" so to speak with being out of the hobby for the time I was gone from it.

Charlie

Congrats on the pick ups - the hypo male is pretty amazing looking.

And I'm so sorry to hear about the hypo girl. It's always awful to lose a pet.
-----
Chris Carille
Marist College, NY
Department of Biology
Chris Carille Photography - carillephoto.com
Garden of Eden Exotics - edenexotics.weebly.com
http://nyexotics.blogspot.com/

Thanks Chris!

I guess I will through in my 2 cents.

Expos are great for selling normal BRBs with a few het hypos in there as well. I always do really well just bring a few higher end animals (hypos, anery etc) with no intention of selling them. Bring a really nice red (or orange) adult that people can covet, then sell them a normal baby for $100. The high end and nicely colored animals will draw people in and they will buy your cheaper normal animal.

IMO there are way to many reptile expos now. We have 4 a year in ATL now, not to mention the surrounding areas. I think people aren’t as likely to buy when they know that there is going to be another opportunity in a few months. It’s also the same people every time, so they have already bought something from you. I can’t even count the number of people that will bring their BRBs to the shows just to show me how it is doing. Unfortunately our profits are down but the price of a table remains the same. However, as breeders we are to blame, as long as we keep buying tables the expo hosts (repticon for me) will keep scheduling shows.

The only people that I know are still making good money at the expos are the venders that offer huge selections of animals that are all below $100.

I have yet to ever post anything online for sale but I think I am going to start doing that very soon to try to move animals that are more than $100.

I truly believe that the ball python market has sparked these low baller’s (for lack of a better term). The ball python breeders are “breeding their market dry” and now people thing it is the norm to low-ball other breeders.

How’s that rant?
-----
John Wiseman
www.rainbowsbydesign.com

18.30 BRBs (as of 6-20-2012)
3.8 others

LOL, when I finally did my first So Cal show a while back it was hilarious to watch the So Cal vendors swarm over my table trying to buy animals at super low prices. It was like they thought I was fresh meat that they could swoop babies from.

Just because they had never seen me before did not mean I was clueless about selling to other vendors.

I really do not vend shows to make lots of money, I do it for the opportunity to meet and greet other rainbow boa people and allow people to see my stuff first hand.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Nice rant John! I'll be curious to find out at an upcoming show if you and I have ever talked face to face before and don't realize it, because I'm at a lot of the Atlanta Repticon shows also. I'm also almost always at the Dixie show over in Birmingham AL if you ever make it over that way. I know a lot of repeat shows bring the same crowd back for a lot of it, but there's also always new people coming into the hobby too. There's also selling X person an animal, and a show or two later, maybe the next year, they show up with a friend of theirs and tell them "meet John, he's who I got mine from that you like so much" and before long, they've bought one from you too.

I definitely get what you mean about having eye candy on the table and totally agree. I think at Tinley I was a little surprised at how much people stopped to take a second look at the anery brb's.

I do think there are a couple of different price caps, really entry level, first time (or close to it) and total impulse buying I think caps around 100$, but for people who have been keeping them for awhile and a little more experienced and serious reptile pet owners, it seems like that price cap is up closer to about 300$. I'll use hypo brb's for example, hopefully they stay on a slow decent in price as they come down, just like everything does, but personally I think when they hit 300$ (and maybe even 350$ considering the popularity of brb's and coloring of hypos) it's really going to expand the market a lot because I think there are a lot of people who will be willing to spend that for one as a pet. You could be right about the BP world causing some of the low balling effect, that get's into a market that really involves a lot of undercutting and backstabbing to make a sale sometimes. Go to a big show on setup day, or even on the morning before a show opens and watch how crazy some of them get running around trying to figure out everyone elses prices before pricing their own animals ...but that's a whole different rant! lol FYI, I do also have a few bp's myself, there's just too much fun to be had mixing genetics with them.

Good to know y'all seem to understand where I'm coming from for the most part!

Charlie

Charlie,

We may have meet before. I am the only vender in ATL with more than one or two BRBs. I am also trying to get out of the Chondros so I have a few adults at the show that I am selling.

I will be in Columbia this weekend, however that will be the last show I do for a while. I am going to try then Internet market after Columbia. I have never advertised on KS so I think I want to give that a try.

To all, if your in Columbia SC this weekend come by and say “hi.” I will have a small set up this time and I am sharing a table with a friend of mine that breeds hedge hogs.
-----
John Wiseman
www.rainbowsbydesign.com

18.30 BRBs (as of 6-20-2012)
3.8 others

Good luck with the show coming up, really doubt I'll make the drive over for it.

The last Atlanta show I did was the July one I think, not sure if you were there for it or not? We actually did okay there, but the show really took a dive as far as quality goes. There were a few scattered tables of nice healthy looking captive bred animals but most of it appeared to be wild caught import stuff...a show or two before than one, one of them even had "brazilian rainbow pythons" wrote on a display. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh right? Other than Dixie, I'm really not sure when next show coming up is that I might make it to.

Charlie

Thanks Cliff! Losing animals always sucks, sorry about your losses also.

I definitely agree with you about them being marketing chances, along with just the social aspect of meeting people face to face that we wouldn't otherwise.

And yes, there was definitely some "bonding"...the little girl was fine when I first looked at her, but she was balled up and I wanted to get her stretched out so I could look her over better. Once I began to unball her, it didn't take long at all for her to decide to let me check out her teeth. I started to look at a second one on the table, but something about her attitude cracked me up and I went with her. Even if I'd pulled the other one out and gotten it all fiesty too, I still think I'd have picked the same one anyways.

Charlie

n/p

To be honest with you, I think the typical Brazilian rainbow buyers are CHEAP! I'm not talking about the more serious enthusiasts like the forum members that participate here, but average online or show buyers. They see crappy animals for sale for $100 and therefore think ALL brbs should be that price, regardless of quality or differences. When it comes to morphs, outstanding colors or patterns, they have no clue what these differences mean or signify.
I've produced and sold many higher end morphs of other species and have never had issue getting top dollar for them. There are a myriad of ball python morphs that people don't hesitate to drop big money on because they're aware of the market on them.
Like any market, there are lower and higher end products. I may be wrong, but I doubt anyone here wishes to produce anything but the best we can, correct? I think the rainbow boa market needs to be developed and cultivated further so that buyers appreciate the difference between what we're offering, and the more common looking animals out there. THAT responsibility falls on breeders like US to educate and develop. It is in all of our best interest to do so!