Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I just visited the "serpentarium" in St. Cloud florida and was talking with one of the owners. He informed me that the regulations have changed in florida and private parties are now allowed to own eastern indigos. They just need the federal permit.

Is this correct??? Have the florida regulations changed???
Thanks....
Jonathan

Haven't heard, but would also be interested to know. I'm not clear on what you heard though. Residents have always been allowed to own, but only one, and the permit was very difficult to get (this is the ownership permit I am speaking of, not the interstate commerce also required for purchasing).

I did speak to someone recently and he did inform me that while no laws changed it has now become a little less challenging to get the above mentioned permit.

I admit that I am ignorant to the regulations in florida concerning easterns. I was previously under the impression that the common hobbyist could not obtain a permit to keep them. I thought it was only ones that were used for educational or research purposes.

George informed me that florida stopped regulating the ownership of easterns and that now all that is necessary is the federal permit. I'm assuming he was refering to the interstate transport permit to obtain them.

I'm trying to get clarity here and find out exactly what laws and regulations are in effect in florida.

So, just for clarity, a hobbyist is allowed to own a single eastern with the ownership permit that is reportedly easier to now obtain? Is this correct?

What if I was to obtain the permit, get a female, find someone with a male, and breed them? Under this law, would I be allowed to keep the offspring or only the 1?

I will make some calls on Monday and see what I can find out. I was thinking about getting a pair of Texas this coming spring/summer, but I would much rather get a nice redthroat or pair

Thanks for the feedback...
Jonathan

No, one of the stipulations of the permit is that you keep only one (from a breeder, obviously wild caught are NOT an option) and agree to not use it for producing offspring. This info is based on what "has been". Again, if anything has changed, I'd like to know as well.

I didn't turn up anything on the FL FWS sites last night that would indicate a change.

i seriously doubt anything has changed. it always seems when a restriction is placed on, it's stays forever. e-mail cameron shaw from fws in florida and he should definitively give u an answer. i don't have his e-mail off of the top of my head but you can google it out.

Cameron_Shaw@fws.gov

thanks for the email address! i will drop him a line and see what he has to say.

it seems kind of weird that a creature that is endangered, with it disappearing in the wild, would be regulated so that you can't breed it. seems like they should welcome breeding as long as they come from ones that already cb. hmm..... doesn't make much sense to me :/

anyway, i'll let you know what i find out.

jonathan

Why does the red throated phase seem to be the popular phase????....isn't the black phase more representative of the natural occurring indigo???.....the redder the snake reflective of more back breeding to get what we (humans) feel is representative of TE indigo????..... Just say in'.......feel free to discuss/argue......

hmm... i had the pleasure of encountering a large solid black eastern indigo in a park a couple weeks ago. it was a magnificent creature! i would not turn it down if it was cb and had the opportunity to add it to my collection.

on the other hand... there is something about the look of the redthroats that i find optically appealing just a matter of personal preference.

if it wasn't for the redthroats, i might as well just get a pair of texas indigos and not have to hassle with all the paperwork. i have never seen adults of each side by side in person, but from my uneducated perspective, there isn't that much of a difference between them.

i welcome discussion also as to the differences.

jonathan

I have understood that red phase and black phase indigos occur more less equally in natural populations, but I have always been curious if this is true. Who knows? I also am curious if one phase or the other is more common in different parts of their range. Who knows? I am curious what the typical ratio of red phase to black phase is within a captive produced clutch. Is one phase larger on average than the other?

First I just like to clarify. Indigos are NOT classified as endangered. If they were, we would need a Cites I permit to own them. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't be classifed as endangered. FWS service prolly just doesn't have the resources to do population density surveys to reclassify them.

As for red throated indigos being inbred, that's an artifact of unscrupulous breeders inbreeding them to get redder throats so they can sell them for more $$$. As far as the natural population goes, to the best of knowledge, the further south you go in their range, the more red throats you'll encounter. Maybe that's why FWS is cautious issuing permits for rare species. We take a perfectly beautiful species and inbred them for our own aesthetics/profit.

Correct, their current classification is "Threatened".

Dale

I think all the Dry`s are beautiful spectacular awesome snakes. i have Easterns, TX, BT`s, YT`s & Uni`s all great snakes. they have an alertness & curiosity that most species dont have.

For me personally there is something about a large black snake that is especially impressive & TX are just as gorgeous as Easterns, some also have quite a bit of pink color on their throats & necks.

As far as black phase to red phase, who cares? they are all stunning.

This is what you should do with all the inbred Eastern's

Did they battle this out or was the Eastern already passed? I have a 4.5 foot mussy and often wonder who would win between these two snakes at a similar size. I am guessing mussy due to the venom, but who knows maybe not.

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

No, this was a fully formed dead in the egg hatchling.
If the two snakes are the same size I would always bet on the Mussurana.

Yeah seems logical, the venom and much better skill of constricting seem to put them over the top. Would never want to see it actually happen though, I like them both too much
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

how's the prolapse markus? still hangin' there and looking viable or did it finally reduce itself?

>>how's the prolapse markus? still hangin' there and looking viable or did it finally reduce itself?

Hi johnnic!

The prolapse is interesting as of late, if I dont handle him it stays almost all the way inside him as it should. But when I do get him out, he pops it back out again. I have cut back his feeding a bit, not sure if thats having any affect really, but maybe it is. We are still reeling in vet bills with our dog situation so a surgery for the prolapse has not been at the forefront of things due to that. Also the fact that it seems to be practically normal when he is in his cage has made it less urgent. He does not seem affected by it at all in there and it does not hang out of him when not being handled. He eats like normal, acts like normal, and looks plump and healthy, so I am just keeping a close watch on it to see if it might somehow correct itself as I have seen others report of that taking place with theirs. Hoping to get lucky and it does seem to be improving compared to before when I first came on here regarding it! If I see things take a turn for the worse though, I will of course do what is needed, but as of right now it seems pretty stable thankfully
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

glad to hear. i spent a couple more bucks and just went with steve fuller's outbred cb indigos a couple of years ago. just don't need that kind of frustration in my life

>>glad to hear. i spent a couple more bucks and just went with steve fuller's outbred cb indigos a couple of years ago. just don't need that kind of frustration in my life
>>

I feel you brother!

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."