Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Disclaimer - I have contacted Cam Shaw, waiting on reply..

History - owned a trio of Easterns while living in PA in the 90's. Moved to FL in '98. Prior to moving, I was advised to give up my 3 as obtaining permits were more difficult than climbing Mt. Everest, and even if obtained FWS would make my life less than enjoyable. Being the silly monkey I was at the time, I followed the advice and split the trio up amongst friends before I left. Haunts me to the day.

Fastforward - after speaking with a few knowledgable individuals recently, I've been informed that while the process has not changed, it has gone from climbing Mt. Everest to more like climbing, well, a smaller mountain. Add the fact that I am employed by a government run educational institution, the mountain gets smaller.

Question - I used to know exactly where to go for the interstate commerce as well as the FL ownership permit. Upon recent searching, and searching, ....and searching, I found - confusion. For the purposes of "keeping for Educational Presentation" I found this taken from FWS:

"The following checklists should assist you in gathering the information required to apply for an online: migratory bird nest removal , ***scientific collecting (includes educational possession)*** or non Florida Resident Falconry permit ."

If the above is correct, I need to apply for the "scientific collecting" permit? Not because I will be doing any collecting, but it implies that educational possession is covered by the same permit. Yay or nay, am I even in the right neighborhood here?

Thanks for any help.

Dale

Oh well, hope it was the right neighborhood as the app is on its way. Says 90 days for processing, hoping it doesn't take the full 3 months but from what I've read, many do.

Had to do the usual reported song and dance and write up and educational plan as well as plan for acquisition.

I'll post updates on the process as I get them.

Dale

Please keep us posted. I asked awhile back about florida permits because I was told the regulations had changed. Someone on here posted an email address of a man that would supposedly set the record straight. I have yet to here back and that was several weeks ago.

Just for a side note, I am seeking a permit to keep them personally and not for educational purposes.

Jonathan

Spoke to Cam Shaw yesterday. He said that no permits on the federal level are required for "donated" Indigos (kind of already knew that). He mentioned that he 'thought' I may need to apply for an ownership permit directly through FL FWS (kind of already knew that too).

I mentioned that I already had an "educational possession" permit app submitted and asked if that was the correct procedure (more hoping that when I mentioned that, that he might offer some assistance in moving it along). Unfortunately he said that he didn't know the specifics well enough of the FL permit process to be of any help.

Permit is currently still sitting in "pending" status.

Dale

I received an email response from FL Fish and Wildlife stating that they no longer process and issue permits to process Eastern Indigo snakes. They advised me to contact the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at http://www.fws.gov for assistance. When I emailed Cameron Shaw to ask if private parties were now allowed to own captive-bred indigos in FL, his response was "I have no idea, as I'm not knowledgeable on state regs." I'm getting frustrated.

Trying not to add to the confusion but Cam Shaw works for US Fish and Wildlife Service (federal agency). Cam's office is in Florida, but I believe he covers several states in the southeast region. The Interstate Commerce permit is actually applied for and issued out of the Atlanta office (regional headquarters) of US Fish and Wildlife Service. Interstate Commerce Permit applications are sent to Atlanta, they are reviewed by Cam's office in Florida, and then sent back to Atlanta for issuance. I can understand why Cam is not familiar with State regulations; he works for the Feds.

So.... It sounds like the guy at the serpentarium was right Florida no longer uses permits or regulates easterns on a state level. Hmm... It would sure be nice to find out for sure though.

Jonathan

I am not so sure about that. I was only commenting on the Federal permit issued by USFWS. I have heard nothing to indicate the State of Florida does not still require a permit.

Actually, I was mostly referring to "happyflcampers" post

It sure would be nice to actually be able to just see the laws and regulations for them in black and white....

Jonathan

2 weeks left on the countdown. Not sure whether its a good or bad sign that my app has lasted this long into the 90 day period.

Well, I didn't get the permit, but I think I got something just as good... from Angela Williams of FL FWC:

"The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) Division of Habitat and
Species Conservation, Species Conservation Planning Section has reviewed your
application dated 11/28/2012 requesting authorization to possess an Eastern indigo
snake under a Scientific Collecting permit.
Your application requests authorization to take or incidentally take species that are
protected by the USFWS Endangered Species Act (ESA). Previous rules required
both a state [FWC] permit as well as a federal [USFWS] permit for ESA species
occurring in Florida. According to newly revised Rule 68A- 27, Florida Administrative
Code (F.A.C.), effective November 8, 2010, “… take of Federally designated
Endangered and Threatened Species [does] not require a permit from the Commission
[FWC] when authorized by [the federal agency] …” Hence, you are no longer
required to obtain a state [FWC] permit from this office for any of the targeted ESA
species."

In regards to Federal permissions, I also have an email from Cam Shaw from when I originally initiated the FL permit app informing me that the Fed did not require a permit for such a circumstance either. He directed me to Florida FWC.

Does this mean that Floridians only need an interstate commerce permit for shipping across state lines?

I would double check with the officials I mentioned in my post, but that is what I gathered from their response to my particular situation.