Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The 4th female from The Eastern Shore of MD.

That's fantastic. I always figured there were coastals there geographically, but never knew anyone had them.

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Historically milksnakes from the eastern shore have always been very rare. Very few have been documented from that area. My friend Bill Grogan has done scientific studies of them with the numbers of reported snakes ever seen being very few. The trees have been logged numerous times over the centuries and suitable habitat is to be found only in isolated pockets where the microhabitat has survived. Most of what remains is farm land or tree farms where trees have been planted to close together and the needed sunlight doesn't reach the forest floor. The snakes need suitable cover like logs left on the ground and just the right sunlight getting through. Tree farming removes all the logs every few years. A stone to look under like you would find in the midwest is not to be found on the coastal plain.

I've found one coastal in all my years of hunting in Currituck. You can argue they're not temporalis (I believe Bill Grogan would say the same) but they're just too large to be scarlets. Head shape, etc....the argument is old as the hills.

I'm a "splitter" for sure

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Chris I think any milk found in Currituck would be a temporalis.Also the Tyrell snakes are temporalis. Where it gets a little sketchy is in Hyde where I think the transition to Elapsoides is more evident. Based on my conversations with Bill he would agree. Similar to how a syspila transitions to an amaura in a gradual way. It all comes down to their habitat and what works for their survival.

I'll buy that. They're in transition but not full-on scarlet kings in Hyde.

Is that what you are saying?

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Chris Here's where it becomes opinion and hard to pin down. My opinion is that there are both forms plus intermediates found in Hyde. This is based only on a very few examples that I have seen. I have personally found only one in Tyrell and it was a temporalis but could have been subject to opinion. Very slender but pattern of a temporalis. I had one from extreme Southern Va.a while back that was temporalis in every detail. They're an interesting snake to work with because of their variability. Every one is a prize that gets harder to find because of loss of habitat.

being a flawless proffesional at finding them in NJ it is indeed altered to the worst habitat for temporalis in delmarva IMO(compared to NJ). the logged regrowth is wayyy to tight and they need prescribed burns .too much agricultural alterations .
whole penninsula is not what it used to be . european civilization for ya

Glad to see "more "of these turning up!

-Brad