Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings,

I am new to milksnakes and are looking to add some to my collection in the future. I have the following questions that i hope you guys/gals can help answer:

1- I was wondering if the splotched/spotted animals are pure nelson's or crosses?

2- the albino's with high yellow instead of white/off-white pattern... what is the deal with these? different line of albinos?

Thanks in advance,
Kenny Tran

1. the splotched gene originally comes from a group of animals that were collected from east of sinaloa, mexico. so, geographically speaking, they'd be considered sinaloan milksnakes.

however, they've been mixed into the muddy pool that is today's hobby sinaloan's and nelson's milksnakes.

this is quite a touchy subject for some, and i don't feel like rehashing it on the forum. please send me a pm if you'd like a much lengthier explanation.

2. true nelson's only have two known mutations: amelanism (both tyrosine positive and negative forms).

all tyrosine negative hatchlings initially have white rings in place of where the black would be on a wild type phenotype.

there is a genetic component to the yellowing - some believe it has to to do with how certain individuals process the carotenoids present in their diet of lab raised rodents. over the next two-three years some will therefore yellow up to varying degrees.

having both the dame and the sire being either high yellow or stark white will, of course, have more of an influence one way or another on the offspring they produce.

if you're looking for stark white or high yellow - i'd suggest getting sub-adults or adults. it can really be a craps shoot with hatchlings.

here's a couple examples:

my spastic proven splotched female:

an old picture of my tyrosine postive male:

a couple of pics of high yellow females:

and a stark white male:

Hi Brian,

Thanks so much for the info and pics. Regarding purity I agree it can be a touchy subject. But it is important for me know so i do not waste my time.

Regarding the yellow albino's, The yellow ones you posted are really nice. I would be interested in getting some of those high yellow albinos in the near future.

Thanks again for the awesome reply.

Regards,
Kenny Tran

no problem kenny. most of us here typically strive to share knowledge about the snakes we love.

i produce good examples of both phenotypes each season, but i would never claim anything i produce (other than from know locale stock) to be pure sinaloae or nelsoni. more than anything, i'm interested in producing good representations of beloved snakes i had in the 90's - ones who are hearty feeders and make excellent captives. it's a labor of love, for sure, and one day i may even get around to posting some pics of my holdbacks from the last three seasons.

here's an excellent forum post by doug mong about the differences between the two subspecies and why they were intentionally mixed in the first place:

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1923940,1924292

and this is vinny lynch's old page. it's been a while since it's been updated but it contains a lot of valuable information in one place:

pantheon.yale.edu/~vjl4/NSR/Sinaloans/Sinaloans.html
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i work with tri-colored west mexican lampropeltis. some morph, some hobby, and some locale.

everyone is entitled to their options, but no one's opinion will ever change how i feel about the snakes i keep and breed.

Everything that Brian said... pure Nelsons are rather difficult to come by although they can still be had. I'd chat with him by pm as he offered so you can get all the "dirt".

Only thing I'll add is this... if you're seeing something right now that catches your eye, get them... only person that needs to be happy with the snakes is you. Most of the boys and girls here can spot a cross/hybrid/intermediate/etc a mile away... and they are good with it as long the animals are represented for what they are. Some very cool looking "Nelsons" out there, so if you see something you like...

Gerry

"as long the animals are represented for what they are"

Yeah, I'm still waiting for that part to ever happen. That's pretty much a wishful pipe-dream at best.

But anyway, I gotta make this short Gerry,..... 'cause I gotta go feed my pure-bred authentic amel, splotched, clown, het "spotted", hypo-E (pumpkin), patternless, aberrant "Sinaloan".....

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"But anyway, I gotta make this short Gerry,..... 'cause I gotta go feed my pure-bred authentic amel, splotched, clown, het "spotted", hypo-E (pumpkin), patternless, aberrant "Sinaloan"....."

and i have every one of those except the hypo-e.

nathan wells sent me a hatchling non-feeder male a few years back - but, after months of trying, i'm sad to report that he didn't make it.
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i work with tri-colored west mexican lampropeltis. some morph, some hobby, and some locale.

everyone is entitled to their options, but no one's opinion will ever change how i feel about the snakes i keep and breed.

Yeah, that's too bad the little hypo-E didn't make it. Some of those things are ridiculously reduced to the point of looking like straight-up anery Hondos in their coloration.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

yeah. he was a nice looking one, 12 RBR too, if i remember correctly.

i still have his het sister. she's always been a picky eater as well. usually only accepts a meal once every 10 days at the earliest. healthy by all accounts, other than her being a ridiculously picky eater.

had her for three years now and she still looks like a yearling.
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i work with tri-colored west mexican lampropeltis. some morph, some hobby, and some locale.

everyone is entitled to their options, but no one's opinion will ever change how i feel about the snakes i keep and breed.

Brian,
My good friend Stu Tennyson has some offspring he is offering this year. See the classifieds.
If I remember correctly, I gifted some of those to you right?
Hope you are well.
Nathan Wells

that you did, with him. it made it all the worse because of that.

and i really should get some from stu, but i keep hoping i'll see some at a show here in california. mostly because i produce as many as i do, it feels weird spending over $200 for a pair of hatchling sinaloans.

and here's to a merry xmas for you and your family nathan.
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i work with tri-colored west mexican lampropeltis. some morph, some hobby, and some locale.

everyone is entitled to their options, but no one's opinion will ever change how i feel about the snakes i keep and breed.

I am producing Hypo-E's from Nathan as well, and have Hypo E Striped/Splotched now.
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
1.1 Aberrant Snow Hondurans
2.4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.3 Aberrant Tangerine Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
1.3 Hypo E Sinaloan
1.0 Het Hypo E & Amel Sinaloan
0.1 Amel het Hypo E and Splotched
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Splotched Sinaloan
1.2 Poss Het T pos Sinaloan
2.2 T pos Sinaloan

I'd agree with you Doug...but the OP expresses his misgivings about the "real deal" Nelsons from the get go.

Question is... are we going to be kingsnake boys and girls, or are we going to be milk snake boys and girls in our replies... a milk snake newbie Doug... looking for meaningful input...which foot do you want to put forward?

I was simply being joking and sarcastic about what YOU said. I wasn't mocking or bashing the OP's post/question whatsoever. Not even a tiny bit.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"Yeah, I'm still waiting for that part to ever happen. That's pretty much a wishful pipe-dream at best"

I didn't make it so clear in my earlier post. I said "Yeah, I'm still waiting for that to happen" very sarcastically in regards to the entire hobby, not that I am still waiting for the poster to tell me anything. I wasn't conducting a sinaloae/nelsoni interrogation...
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I've been a bit under the weather the last couple days so haven't looked here to see your replies.

Never a question in my mind you were being sarcastic or where that sarcasm was pointed.

Looking at my comment with fresh eyes (ones that aren't making everything spin in crazy circles)this morning I'm rather surprised you haven't sent me a nasty e-mail asking where the hell I get off... I see I didn't even put my name at the end of my post.

Anyway to be brief... my apologies... my intent was to point out the OP may not recognize your sarcasm. Sadly looking at things this morning, even to me, not a thing in my comment gives that impression.

If nothing else you do prove my point that we all do play nice here... I'll be waiting for my deserved nasty e-mail.

Gerry

LOL!!,....no problem there at all, Gerry. Just a simple miscommunication was all. It happens all the time from reading text alone as we all know.

.........all is good!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com