Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, actually it is from a clutch laid 102 days ago - from my Santa Rita locality Northern Green Rats. Only one egg went all the way to hatching - the others went bad at various stages along the way. The baby looks pretty good so far, except that the very tip of the tail may be slightly hooked. I will know for certain once I handle the little guy - I will wait for the umbilicus to fall off before bothering it.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Very cool, one is better than none.

I'm convinced my clutch went full term this year because I dealt with my female's obesity problem.

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Pituophis c. annectans
Senticolis t. intermedia
Pantherophis bairdi
Lampropeltis m. thayeri
Lichanura t. trivirgata
Pseudopus apodus

Thanks Ryan!

Yep, one is better than none - but honestly, I wasn't even expecting this clutch to happen. I did not reintroduce either of my female green rats to their mates, yet both laid second clutches. The other (Pajarito) female's second clutch did better, with 3 of four eggs hatching out - and all three are perfect.

Dietary issues are a big part of the equation in fertility and successful breeding, IMO. In my case, I believe my finally getting (switched from live) my big Santa Rita female to start taking f/t mice in 2012 helped a lot with the development of the babies - and reducing the kinks which have plagued my Rita's babies. I was able to give her much more food, which I occasionally dusted with calcium D3, during breeding and egg development. However, not everyone agrees - there are several well known and well experienced herpetoculturists on both sides of that issue.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I feed mine live, I dust pre-killed prey with a 50/50 mix of reptile multi vitamin and calciumD3. I've heard frozen food is degraded protein and of a lower quality and that snakes will void more as waste than absorb.
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Pituophis c. annectans
Senticolis t. intermedia
Pantherophis bairdi
Lampropeltis m. thayeri
Lichanura t. trivirgata
Pseudopus apodus

I agree that feeding snakes mice which were rasied / bred by you can be healthier - you can feed the mice a good diet plus vitamin supplements as well. I was not producing enough mice to keep my adult green rats as well fed as I like, so I was happy when they started taking freshly killed mice and then f/t. My adult green rats have high metabolisms and quickly digest both live and f/t prey. They (especially large females) can take a large amount of food, and the quickness with which they digest reminds me a lot of the Asian beauty snakes. Mine are all fairly active and kept in large tubs or large cages, and do not have problems with obesity. I do give them freshly killed mice (which have been fed a healthy diet) as often as possible as well. Another reason I was happy that they finally switched to dead mice is because live rodents can be very dangerous to snakes. My big Santa Rita female was bitten badly a couple years ago - it healed well, but she has a substantial scar...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Congrats Toby. One is better than none, especially when you weren't even expecting it. Hope it does well for you.
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Matt Kauffman

>>Congrats Toby. One is better than none, especially when you weren't even expecting it. Hope it does well for you.
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>>Matt Kauffman

Thanks Matt!

I don't expect too much trouble from it - they usually start easily on live pinkies, if they don't take f/t pinkies for their first meals. Rarely, I have had difficult feeding baby green rats - interestingly (to me), both have been "runts"...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Sorry to reply so late, been working on my reef aquarium while my snakes "sleep". It gives me something very interesting to do during the winter months. Two demanding hobbies gets a bit overwhelming at times, so I am also looking to downsize a little, but only some of the more common species that I currently have.
Anyway, about your post, I find that interesting also. I have usually found the opposite to be true, with the runts taking food more readily than some of the normal size hatchlings. I don't have any experience with Senticolis, but that is what I've seen in most other rat snake species that I've had the pleasure of raising. Hope all is well.
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Matt Kauffman

>>Sorry to reply so late, been working on my reef aquarium while my snakes "sleep". It gives me something very interesting to do during the winter months. Two demanding hobbies gets a bit overwhelming at times, so I am also looking to downsize a little, but only some of the more common species that I currently have.
>> Anyway, about your post, I find that interesting also. I have usually found the opposite to be true, with the runts taking food more readily than some of the normal size hatchlings. I don't have any experience with Senticolis, but that is what I've seen in most other rat snake species that I've had the pleasure of raising. Hope all is well.
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>>Matt Kauffman

Wow - a reef aquarium too? I find that rather impressive - I used to have aquariums when I was younger, but find I just don't have the time or money for that hobby at the same time as keeping snakes, herping, and other aspects of the hobby / avocation.

Re: runts and feeding - yep, me too - mostly they have been great feeders, in other species I've kept, and have gotten up to normal size very quickly. It seems like interemedia runts (or the ones I've seen) don't have much of a will to live somehow. Or - I just haven't figured out whatever it is they want to eat. Fortunately, most green rat babies hatch out huge and have voracious appetites...
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Congrats, Toby. At least you got one.

My Santa Rita female only had one clutch (of 4), but she is much smaller than your female. That little tail kink is too small to be of much bother, imo.

Terry Cox (from Tamarindo, C. R.)

>>Well, actually it is from a clutch laid 102 days ago - from my Santa Rita locality Northern Green Rats. Only one egg went all the way to hatching - the others went bad at various stages along the way. The baby looks pretty good so far, except that the very tip of the tail may be slightly hooked. I will know for certain once I handle the little guy - I will wait for the umbilicus to fall off before bothering it.
>>
>>
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>>
>>-----
>>-Toby Brock
>>Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
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Ratsnake Haven Webpage
Ratsnake Haven Group

>>Congrats, Toby. At least you got one.
>>
>>My Santa Rita female only had one clutch (of 4), but she is much smaller than your female. That little tail kink is too small to be of much bother, imo.
>>
>>Terry Cox (from Tamarindo, C. R.)

>>Ratsnake Haven Webpage
>>Ratsnake Haven Group

Thanks Terry - yep, one from this clutch. Several hatched out from her first clutch of the year though. I am not unhappy with this little one, and have not really been unhappy with any of the ones which have hatched out slightly kinked over the last few years. This one's tail tip kink is tiny, and it is all a learning experience anyway - and I may keep this latest one to mix into another line of Santa Ritas - or make generics...

Tamarindo, C. R. - Costa Rica? Wow, very nice - doing any herping down there?
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

>>>>Congrats, Toby. At least you got one.
>>>>
>>>>My Santa Rita female only had one clutch (of 4), but she is much smaller than your female. That little tail kink is too small to be of much bother, imo.
>>>>
>>>>Terry Cox (from Tamarindo, C. R.)
>>
>>>>Ratsnake Haven Webpage
>>>>Ratsnake Haven Group
>>
>>Thanks Terry - yep, one from this clutch. Several hatched out from her first clutch of the year though. I am not unhappy with this little one, and have not really been unhappy with any of the ones which have hatched out slightly kinked over the last few years. This one's tail tip kink is tiny, and it is all a learning experience anyway - and I may keep this latest one to mix into another line of Santa Ritas - or make generics...
>>
>>Tamarindo, C. R. - Costa Rica? Wow, very nice - doing any herping down there?
>>-----
>>-Toby Brock
>>Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Yep, Costa Rica. I couldn't get access to a computer very often, but we are home now. I didn't see any snakes, because it was the wrong time of the year for them, very dry where we were at, northwest coast. We did see some lizards and crocs though and lots of birds, of course.

I got my green rats back to the back porch this week, which is more humid than in the house. I also cranked up the heat to the low 70's. Two of my four 2012 babies ate f/t pinks right away, one had eaten f/t before. I was pretty happy about that. I'm thinking they might both be females, but I don't really know for sure, yet. The conditions I have them in now seem to be ideal for the babies. My 2011 female is growing like a weed. She is 3 times the size of her brother, at least, but the male is fairly active too.

PS: I think they might be large enough to breed at 2.5 yrs. old.?

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Ratsnake Haven Webpage
Ratsnake Haven Group

>>>>>>Congrats, Toby. At least you got one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My Santa Rita female only had one clutch (of 4), but she is much smaller than your female. That little tail kink is too small to be of much bother, imo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Terry Cox (from Tamarindo, C. R.)
>>>>
>>>>>>Ratsnake Haven Webpage
>>>>>>Ratsnake Haven Group
>>>>
>>>>Thanks Terry - yep, one from this clutch. Several hatched out from her first clutch of the year though. I am not unhappy with this little one, and have not really been unhappy with any of the ones which have hatched out slightly kinked over the last few years. This one's tail tip kink is tiny, and it is all a learning experience anyway - and I may keep this latest one to mix into another line of Santa Ritas - or make generics...
>>>>
>>>>Tamarindo, C. R. - Costa Rica? Wow, very nice - doing any herping down there?
>>>>-----
>>>>-Toby Brock
>>>>Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
>>
>>Yep, Costa Rica. I couldn't get access to a computer very often, but we are home now. I didn't see any snakes, because it was the wrong time of the year for them, very dry where we were at, northwest coast. We did see some lizards and crocs though and lots of birds, of course.
>>
>>I got my green rats back to the back porch this week, which is more humid than in the house. I also cranked up the heat to the low 70's. Two of my four 2012 babies ate f/t pinks right away, one had eaten f/t before. I was pretty happy about that. I'm thinking they might both be females, but I don't really know for sure, yet. The conditions I have them in now seem to be ideal for the babies. My 2011 female is growing like a weed. She is 3 times the size of her brother, at least, but the male is fairly active too.
>>
>>PS: I think they might be large enough to breed at 2.5 yrs. old.?
>>
>>
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>>Ratsnake Haven Webpage
>>Ratsnake Haven Group

Welcome back from the tropics, Terry!

Sounds like your 2012 babies are doing well. All of mine are feeding well, including the baby which recently hatched - it is taking live fuzzy mice. Some of my first clutch 2012's (Pajaritos and Ritas) are now taking mutiple large fuzzy mice at meals - and growing very fast, similar to beauty snakes...

Regarding breeding at 2.5 years old - yes I think it is highly possible, if the young male can figure out his role. That seems to have been an issue in a couple other species I've bred - and by the next year, they seem to have it down. I have raised some 2010's up to adult proportions myself, and am sending some to a friend to try breeding, this spring.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research