Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I rescently purchased a trio of yellow ridgetail hatchlings.I house them in a 4x2x2 enclosure with about 10in soil substrate.I have been giving them roughly 30 to 40 crickets daily for the past ten days. When I went to clean the tank the other day I found a huge cricket hide. Should I keep feeding them as I have been,or wait until I dont see anymore crickets for a few days? Any tips would be appreciated

its up to you. You can get them out, and keep feeding or stop feeding and let the monitors do it for you. No right answer.

The excess crickets will become a small problem. Best wishes

I like to keep an eye on the younguns to make sure they are all eating well. Such a large enclosure is perhaps not the best solution for this. Maybe split it off for a while until they are a bit larger. This will help them chase down prey a little easier as well.
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Mike

No offense but, healthy neonates can and do catch and find prey, in any size cage(large wise). Afterall, they are designed to live in nature. The largest of cages.

If they have a problem, that is the monitors telling you the conditions are not right and you the keeper needs to make changes.

What your doing is a control issue, and its always about control. How about giving some control back to the animals, after all, They are indeed designed to make all their own decisions. Have a great day

That is true. However improvements can be made in captivity whenever possible for better outcomes.
Nature has its ups and downs and sometimes we can remove the downs such as better access to food.
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Mike

Please understand, this is not about natures ups and downs. It is about improvements to our husbandry.

In This case, if we set up larger cages properly, its far better then a small cage.

In most cases, folks go for the smallest cage, based on available space. If you have space, with monitors larger is always better.

The more suitable space they have the more BEHAVIOR they display, which means the more fun it is to keep them. Best wishes

No offense Mike, but you saw what happened when I put those 5 inch lizards in that 8 foot cage.

They flourished beyond all expectations.

Even at such small size, they could cover a lot of ground fast.

I would think that principle would apply with any species.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Enclosure size ideals aside, the problem is too many bugs running wild. Larger crickets can cause damage to baby lizards by chewing on eyelids as well as toe and tail tips. Crawling over them while they sleep causes stress. I would set out some food just for the loose crickets like an apple slice so the bugs will eat that instead of the Ackies. If they don't relish crickets try other bugs. I would say that well designed enclosures will often harbor crickets. Since your lizards are new there can be a settle in period and given time as they become adapted to their new setup they will probably find all those crevices that the crickets retreat into and this should become less of a problem.
Good luck-
Matt Schubarth

No offense taken Wayne. There's lots of ways to skin a cat so to speak.
That's why I answered with what I like to do and what works for me.

I probably started doing this with newly hatched clutches. I monitor them so make certain they are all feeding well before selling to anyone. I realize that larger scaled breeders can't give the best attention to their animals. But I choose to make sure all are getting a good meal at every opportunity and not to leave things to chance whenever possible.
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Mike

And I can understand your motivation for keeping close tabs on them.

I'm sure it will be a challenge when I have bunches of wee sprouts to keep an eye on myself.

Also a bit unrealistic to try and have slews of monster cages around for temporary housing too.

on this subject of crickets, I can understand them being a nuisance, but can they really chew into that leathery skin??

Or is it more a case of crickets walking on their ear drums and nostrils?

Reason I ask is apparently I'm breeding crickets and didn't even know it, there is always little ones running around in my enclosure, and I have not fed crickets at all in many months.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

I've always heard that they can bite. But never been privy to any damage.
No doubt an adult cricket could do damage but I wouldn't think pin heads would have strong enough mandibles to do damage.
Monitors can sleep pretty hard sometimes, but getting bit would likely wake them up to chase the insect down.

Likely it's more of an issue with the softer skin of geckoes.
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Mike

I know why I never see any adult crickets, they get ate as soon as they are big enough to arouse interest.

evidently the conditions inside support cricket breeding.

so I thought I would ask.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Baby crickets hatching in an enclosure are not going to harm anything. The adults can and do. Ackies do seem a little on the tougher side of skin textures but I would say eye lids would be the most in danger while they sleep. Honestly, who would sleep unstressed with crickets milling around on top of them?

FR- I have seen enough lizards, mostly Iguanids, that have had the edges of the eyes chewed on and then healed nearly shut to a pin sized hole to not risk an animals health in that way. Anything I post on here is based on 20 years of husbandry experience and around 30 species of reptiles bred in captivity. I see no reason to artificially stress baby lizards with excess feeder bugs.

Matt Schubarth

When I see a lizard that is missing just their nail, even though most of those cases probably involved improper humidity allowing unseeded skin to collect at the tip and constrict blood flow to that nail(or tail), some may have had the mandibles if an adult cricket exacerbating the situation.

Matt Schubarth

I didn't put it any of these responses but the original post I had on fc included increasing the amount of habitat in their enclosure, more basking and hiding spots.

Matt Schubarth

Hi Matt, your missing the point. No, keeper should keep baby ackies in an adult cricket bin.

The point is husbandry and I do not care how long you or I have been breeding lizards, I first produced lizards in captivity, 48 years ago. I am still learning and in fact, I learn more now, and that is due to that experience.

In this case, its about providing normal shelters, so that "BABY ACKIES" can escape from insects, again in context, uneaten crickets. The context is NOT GAINT UNEATEN crickets, but normal sized that they did not eat, during a previous feeding.

Monitors, and ackies are monitors, do not sleep in the open, if given the ability to shelter, they never sleep outside a shelter. Shelter is required both in nature and in captivity, as its part of their NORMAL ability to stay secure from harm, which includes, predators, prey and extreme conditions.

So yes, if your keeping a baby ackie in a glass tank on paper towels, then excess insects can bother or harm a baby ackie. The point is, thats a horrible way to keep ANY BEHAVIORAL LIZARD(VARANIDS) Don't do that, hahhahahahahaha give them a life!

Others species, like Beardeds and Chams, do Sleep in the open, but they have their own methods of preventing that stress. They sleep high out on branches.

The question was, should the crickets be removed or left and allow the monitors to consume them. The answer is either. I guess if folks are not aware of common sense, then I must add, "WITHIN REASON". It is and was common practice to feed daily, then not add more until excess crickets dissappeared.

That you argue this point, brings up APPROACH, and there are many.

I think of husbandry as what supports the captive in as normal a way as possible. Which means, if the captive has the ability to do something, then support that. In this case provide the ackies with thier own natural ability to prevent that stress or harm by supporting them with deep substrate and crevices.

I am not a fan of preventive husbandry. Thats when keepers attempt to REMOVE all possible dangers.

As mentioned already, its not about possible dangers, it IS ABOUT PROBABLE DANGERS. In captivity, the probable cause for failure is 1. ignorance. 2., the captive escaping, door left open. 3. neglect. 4. a common important area of concern is CONTEXT. Much like these threads, keepers do not stay in context to the subject. To the point, varanids have and do resist captive success because they are not Colubrids, or Iguanids, or agamids, they are varanids, which REQUIRE security. Thank you, thank you very much

Even though the cage size seemed adequate, when the poster stated that that he had to go so far as to remove crickets that leaves two options- they Ackies aren't eating(habitat) or are being way overfed(owner). Crickets crawling over resting lizards is stress unnecessary. This is reguardless as to whether or not the bugs will actually physically damage the lizard. As I'm sure you know by experience, mental stress can be worse for reptiles.
We are really talking about the same side of the coin here FR and I'm sure the poster is satisfied with his options. There simply isn't anything to "argue" about. My advice is just one person experience, take it or leave it.

Matt Schubarth

I have not seen any arguing in this thread.

Can we please set aside our personal differences and talk about the monitors?

(Me included here)

I like learning, I like knowledge, and when we let our grudges get in the way, learning gets sidetracked.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....

Its the obvious solution to the whole issue. Of course it does entail tube feeding all the crickets that remain uneaten but that tends to get the keeper to learn pretty quick about just how much their animals actually eat at most any given time. One upside is that in the course of tube feeding crickets one can more easily introduce all those alluring and tasty cricket flavoring additives that every lizard loves......

I am sorry, you saidI realize that larger scaled breeders can't give the best attention to their animals.
That statement is an assumption and has nothing to do with this thread.

I really do not understand your rational or why you even say this. First off, a large scale breeder HAS to sell Great CB/H or they would not become a large scale breeder.

If a large scale breeder becomes overwelmed with offspring, and does not practice good husbandry, then that breeder, becomes a small or no scale breeder quickly. Poor husbandry, is poor husbandry, no matter who does it. Your confusing importers or jobbers(resale companies) with captive breeders.

Also, there are NO large scale breeders of monitors. So I am confused at why you would say such a thing. Best wishes

That is totally wrong. Only unheathy lizards in poorly setup cages have that occur.

When that occurs, thats telling you the keeper the cage setup is wrong and or, the captive is very unhealthy.

Lets look back to nature, they are hatched in the wild, where there are all these bugs and many more, bugs that eat them, snakes that eat them, birds and mammals that eat them, etc.

They must find shelter to escape form all those constant pressures. They have safe burrows where nothing can get to them, or crevices. A normal burrow is where they squeeze in and then block the burrow with their tail, which is why the tail has thick spiny scales. If you the keeper do not provide them the ability to do whats natural, its you fault.

If you allow a million crickets to grow up in the cage, its still your fault.

Lastly and most importantly, I have raised hundreds upon hundreds of ackies, which is the context of this threat and never once had bugs chew eyelids or toes or tail tips.

My bet is, it has not happened to you either, and your just saying its possible, guess what, anything is possible, but the real concern is, what is probable.

Husbandry is defined as to give support, to husband, its not to take away or control and think of the animal has helpless. Its to give them what they require to attain a normal life.

So I say, to improve husbandry, give them more, not take away all that gives them life. Thanks

What I just read makes more sense that anything I have read from some people.

I just could not wrap my head around the concept than an animal that can run fast through some of the thorniest scrub & sharpest jagged rocks on earth without a scratch could be damaged by a mere insect.

Seems like it's easier to blame the bugs than look in the mirror.

Have a great day.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....