Reptile & Amphibian Forums

"And caramel amel = NO REDS. None."
This is Not true. Here is a pic of a hatchling butter off Ians site.It obviosly has red as a ground color see the orange.

"Here is a link to what butters look like. You snake should look like *those*, not like what you have."
An older butter from the same site.

It obviosly has red as a ground color see the orange.
"You snake would look like a butter motley, not JUST have yellow.
"Amber = caramel hypo..."
Here is a young Carmel from the same site.

It obviosly has red as a ground color see the orange.
Here is an adult carmel from Ians site.

See the orange and the yellow?
what you see as red in the pics is Orange in life,
What is true is that our debate has been educational and solidifies my belief in what he is...
Yellow is a dominant color and is enveloping his entire body.

Thank you. I hope God blesses you season.

To maybe clarify a little more, the type of orange your snake is showing, the orange that is borderline straight up red, it not seen on butters. Orange can range from the super pale pastel up to the almost-just-red. The orange on a butter is more at the yellow end of the spectrum. The whole snake is more at the yellow end, and the orange is very dull, almost brownish. It is a caramel color.

If you compare the picture of a butter you posted to the colors of your snake, this difference is very very clear. You snake, having amel and caramel supposedly, should look *just like* that butter but it clearly does not color-wise.

there is a lot of variation. When combining multiple traits.
Thanks for being as stubborn and persistent as me. lol.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129174

I posted. Rich Z agrees, not homozygous caramel. Just as you said... lots of variation and that includes amel. Sometimes, due to the caramel, amels that are het caramel show excessive yellows and oranges. But butters are pretty uniform. Most of the variation is how bright the yellow they are, but they're pretty much all nothing but yellow as they age.

And this is the colors your snake should be, if it was also caramel.

...I was buying corns as they were being created...long ago...and usually from first stock or so....

so...I know cameras do wierd things to color...but...

my butter didn't look like that and my caramels didn't look like that either....

...all I got....

(breeding proves things out)
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........JY

Made ya look

Those dark butters you linked from Ian's Viv owe their coloration to years of of predecessors, not just because amel and caramel came to produce them. And the caramel you posted from Ian's is a bad example, if not wrong. Some have speculated you can see the difference in snakes het for caramel vs ones that are not; het caramels are more "yellow".

I could see yours being amel motley or mot/stripe het caramel easily. Bloodred and motley combined can suck to pick out, but it's possible also with that guy, bloodred amel mot/stripe. The hypo could be masked by the amel, so I'll go out there and say even possibly hypo fire mot/stripe. Proven out would make it pretty darn unusual corn and a heck of a mix...I just dont see it being homozygous caramel, but I do see it being het for caramel tho. We could be wrong, maybe everything else together has finally been enough of a combo to mask Caramel from expressing itself lol. Just doesn't look like one to me, but that's just my opinion on a really pretty kid from neat looking parents :*)

Chris
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High Tide Corn Snakes on FB/ACR Breeder #59