Reptile & Amphibian Forums

in case anyone hasn't heard, Burmese Stars have just been approved for listing as CITES I, and as of sometime this summer of fall, no more purchase or shipping interstate without a federal permit. Given that the species is essentially extinct in the wild, but thousands being bred in captivity, it's long overdue.

Long overdue? If it had been done a long time ago then there would not be the thousands that were born in captivity. With all due respect, how does this help the Burmese Star tortoise. Again respectfully, does this help them in any way in their Native range to somehow rebound from their current status. Vic Morgan

I agree with you Vic. It's too much, too late.

Tell me how this makes sense? Those that are taken out of the wild are done so illegally to begin with. This is only going to make it harder to work with those already in captivity.

>>in case anyone hasn't heard, Burmese Stars have just been approved for listing as CITES I, and as of sometime this summer of fall, no more purchase or shipping interstate without a federal permit. Given that the species is essentially extinct in the wild, but thousands being bred in captivity, it's long overdue.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

EJ you are so right. It seems to be the intentional dismantelling of assurence colonies held in the private sector. Like you say "harder to work with" as in getting new bloodlines and just simply the abbility to pair them up as time goes on. Dont forget the vishions of the annointed to be "Granted" permits. VM pic defying destiny in captivity.

Correct me if I am wrong, but getting the CITES I designation does not limit interstate sales and movement. It will limit legal international movement. The only thing that limits interstate sales and movement are federally recongnized "Endangered species".

Yes, Timathy is correct. Unless the species is also added to the US Endangered Species Act listing, interstate commerce in this country will still be legal without a CBW Permit regardless of the CITES I classification.

The point is to give teeth to enforcement of international smuggling laws. If you saw the ploughshare news today (54 ploughshares confiscated at Bangkok airport), you get the point. At the least, CITES I species are sold less openly and less frequently than they would be if they international commerce were not banned. I agree that CITES I designation sometimes does more harm than good, but it's a case by case basis.

Don't forget, there is very little evidence that captive breeding can actually save a species, except in captivity, no matter how much we all want to think we're doing something moral by breeding rare tortoises.

This essentially changes nothing, as these are not currently being imported. Since they are not on the US endangered species list, you still don't need a US Fish & Wildlife CBW permit and interstate commerce is not regulated.

I'm glad they are being captive breed and I would rather save a species, if only in captivity, than see it go extinct. What CITES 1 does do, it make it harder to export these species, if we ever did want to re-establish in the wild.

if you think Burmese stars are not being imported, think again....

and the CITES I is perhaps more aimed at the Asian market, where WC Burm stars still show up in Singapore, Bangkok and other black markets...

Hello Simias,

I don't think anyone here is saying that CITES I status for the Burmese Star will not help the species overall, they are merely pointing out to you that you do understand what it means for the species in the US because your first post contains a misconception:

"in case anyone hasn't heard, Burmese Stars have just been approved for listing as CITES I, and as of sometime this summer of fall, no more purchase or shipping interstate without a federal permit."

CITES status of any species has no bearing on whether a CBW Permit is required to buy and sell the species in the US. Only the listing of the animal on the US Endangered Species Act list makes the CBW Permit a requisite for interstate sales in this country.

The moral question is Living in captivity or becoming soup. It is going to stop nothing as the new age smuggular is the corrupt governments in Asia that will give CITES papers for wild captured reptiles as "farm raised" It happens everyday, I compeat with them now and you can tell by the age and price ($150 retail for a nine inch Mt.Tortoises) and the internal paracites no one hatched it out in captivity. They suffer and die and its all legal. Dealers in Asia beg me for my CB Manouria because "farm" never live more than six months. Pet stores all over Asia are full of so called "farm raised" legal CITES animals. As far as little evadence captive breeding can help "save' them, well who is dragging their feet there? Vic Morgan

I'm not sure I understand. Will Burmese now be like Radiateds where interstate transport is illegal without a permit or will they be like Egyptian tortoises where interstate transport is allowed but not import/export?

Hello Will,

The latter statement of your post is correct. See my post of earlier today a couple of notches above yours. CITES I will change the import/export requirements, but only adding the species to the US Endangered Species Act would make a CBW Permit necessary for interstate commerce and shipments within the US. IE, there is still no CBW Permit requirement for sales or movement of Burmese Stars within the US. Captive breeding of G. platynota within our country can still go on as it has been (which is good).

That's great Bill. Thanks very much...