Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It was a succinct summery of animal husbandry. That was that if your animals are incapable of breeding there is something fundementally flawed in one's husbandry practices. It pretty well sums it all up. And applies to any species being maintained in captivity. I ve kept animals, including herps, for 44 of my nearly 50 year life(hittin the big 50 next week....ahhhhhh) i ve been a zookeeper at two zoos and hung with at least one of the best in the field and Frank's statement hits the whole box of nails on the head. Alas, looking back, i certainly tortured by ignorance more than my fair share of critters, but once i stopped reading(ok...not literally ..)and started listening to what the buggers needed i finally closed the dungeon , so to speak.
So once again, FR, whereever you R, thanks for yer insights and your courage and perseverance to keep on telling others until it eventually sinks in!
Yer pal, guy

Thanks Guy, I am not sure, thats obvious, how to explain to keepers, that its not about us. We bring too much garbage to the table. Its about the animals.

In nature, success is to exsist and the only way to exsist is to reproduce. All behaviors, all adaptions lead to reproduction. From simple social stradgys to complicated social stradgys, all evolve to insure the exsistance of the species, (not so much the individual).

The simply ability to reproduce, is the lowest level of success, not the highest level.

Yet in captivity, we think a heart beat is living, therefore success. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm we humans!!!!!! Thats not even good for us. And we do not think of ourselves as animals. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

We do complicate and prejudice our thoughts with all manner of "stuff" some based on religion, others just based on our ability and what we are willing to settle for. The hard truth is, religion, or our own expectations, have nothing to do with these animals.

We put them in boxes, then refuse to look at them as the animals they are. But I rant.

While we can fail, we should not except the fact that these animals were designed to reproduce and do so down to the least support, not the most. Success is in the range of their potential, not below that.

In otherwords, to reproduce is normal. We should not except that as exceptional.

Dang it Guy, look what you made me do, its your fault!

Miss you, hope to see you someday, and before your cactus falls over. Have a great day

But as you said...if, for example, one were to keep keep ones dog in a psycho-physical state of being where it was incapible or unwilling(after all...all dogs are dogs....right?)to breed, chances are, that were the authorities aware of such, charges would be pressed. And while it is not absolute condemnation of a keeper should his or her cares not be reproductive, in the cases where the animals are paired, mind you, but rather an indicator that further refinement of the husbandry might well prove beneficial for the creatures and those that keep them, in terms of the specimens overall well being and the keepers expansion of knowledge and awareness.
Yeah buddy...turning fifty next week..gotta call ya..i have a couple differnt thoughts to bounce off that thick head of yers! Say howdy to the mrs. for me!

Guy