Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I need some Uro help/advice and all that jazz.
My dad got my mom a consolation Uro two years ago after her panther chameleon died (obviously my father is not particularly savvy). While the Uro was well-cared for, he/she wasn't socialized. My mom is reptile aware and checked out Deer Fern's info, etc.
Five days ago, they moved and decided to give me their Uro.
I have snakes and had beardies for years and years, but am new to Uros.
First things first, this Uro is very small for his age. He's about 5 inches, which at 2, I'm pretty sure is too small. Bone structure looks good, so I'm not worried about MBD or anything.

The Info:
20long (I know)

Lights on at 7:00am, food offered around 7:30am, lights off at 7:30pm.

Basking temp 115, cool side 76 (taken with a PE1 temp gun)

I think my parents predominantly fed Earthbound spring green mix, so far I've had him on curly endive and dandelion greens. Calc powder every other day, Miner-all once a week.

On millet

I took out his hide 2 days ago because he didn't go out to bask at all. Like at all. Ever.
I do have some logs in there, so he can do a little burrowing action.

Here are my questions:
1. At about 5 inches, if the temps are holding properly, how quickly do I need to worry about getting a larger enclosure?

2. What to do about this basking issue? I know that Uros need their hiding spots, but if mine NEVER comes out of his...what are my options?

3. He hates me. I don't blame him. I've been letting him just adjust and now have started to just leave my hand in the cage for 5-10 minutes, but he hulas and clearly wants me gone. The game plan is to start taking him out for short periods of time soon, but I really don't want to stress him.
Coming from a beardie background, how social can I actually expect a Uro to get? I know nothing's quite like a beardie.

4. Do these guys do better on a Reptisun or an MVB? The expiration on the current one is about a month and I wanna know if I should be looking at T-Rex or a reptisun 10.0 and basking light. Given his inertia, I like the idea of a UVB that extends across the enclosure.

5. How quickly are these guys supposed to grow and about how much do they actually eat? In short, exactly how behind is my little guy? I've read some places that feeding occasional super worms can improve health/growth. How much do we actually know about this idea?

6. Is gender identification similar to beardies? Can I just look for femoral pores?

Last but not least, I am at least trying to attach a pic. Can anyone identify what type of Uro I've got on my hands.

Any other advice or help is greatly appreciated.

- Kerry

Let's try that picture thing again!
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1.1.0 beardies
1.0.0 bloodred corn
0.1.0 striped anery corn
0.1.0 the cutest lil BRB ever- courtesy of Dave!
0.1.0 leopard gecko
0.1.0 golden gecko
0.2.0 mourning geckos
1.1.0 cats

1. Uros grow slowly - it's probably not TOO small for its age, but proper nutrition will help it. The trick is, you need a larger enclosure NOW. 20L is way too small. Minimum size would be 36" by 18", but you're much better off getting a 4' x 2' or larger immediately since you'll have to get one that big soon enough anyway. Temps will be addressed later - yours aren't right.

2. Give him back his hide immediately - several if you can (low and tight). He's severely stressed from the move and now is even more stressed because he has nowhere to feel safe. It's not uncommon for a uro to hide without coming out to eat or bask for up to two weeks. He'll come out when he's ready.

3. You're making it worse by trying to socialize him. They aren't social. Don't take him out, don't hold him. He will come out when he's ready, and he may eventually get used to you messing with things in his cage. He may not EVER be OK with you handling him. Eventually you can try to sweet talk him with treats, but don't try to force the issue.

4. You'll want to do some big-time reading on UVB before making any decisions. I use almost exclusively Mega-Rays in very large enclosures. Basking distance is a huge factor in your choice. If you have a fluorescent, it must be within 12" or so of his basking spot. I hear the high output T5 Arcadias are quite nice in terms of quality of UVB and longevity.

5. Uros are slow growers, especially if compared to something like a beardie. Don't worry. Feed him properly (more info on food later), give him space and proper temps and he'll be fine. Don't feed him bugs of any kind - they're much better off as strict vegetarians. Bugs can lead to health problems, and even worse, encourage them to STOP eating their greens.

6. Sexing can be very difficult. I'm not even going to try telling you what species you have, let alone what sex it is. Most of them require similar environments. And sex really doesn't matter at all.

To be continued in next post...
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.2 Saharan Uros (Joe, Arthur, and Hitch)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
1.2 Collared Lizards (Ripcord, Thiamine, and Riboflavin)
1.1 Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

On to temps!

Basking surface temp should be 120F or even a little higher. At least half of the cage's ambient temps should be around 100F. About a third of the cage should be around 85F. Overhead heat is preferred to undertank heating, and definitely no hot rocks (as you probably know). The trick is that these temps are very hard to maintain safely in a cage as small as 20L. That's why the 40 breeder is the minimum recommended, even for such a small uro.

Food!

Spring mix is ok - endive, escarole, and dandelions are better. But you definitely want to add in more things. Vary the greens a little - add in some collards and kale sometimes or nappa cabbage or radicchio. Avoid chard, spinach, and cabbage.

Shred and mix in some vegetables, too: green beans, parsnip, and hard and soft squashes like butternut, acorn, zucchini, and yellow squash. They LOVE green peas, which can be an excellent treat - don't overdo them, though. Avoid cruciferous veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, and brussels sprouts.

Once he's eating his greens/veggies regularly, you can add in dry foods, too. Dried grasses like orchard or timothy hay are great - I dust it in a coffee grinder and mix it into shredded squash. They love dry lentils, seeds (pumpkin/flax/sunflower, etc), wheat or rye berries, crushed beans, etc. For such a small guy, grind it in that same coffee grinder. Adults generally have no trouble crunching through very hard lentils and things, but most beans are still too large. NO KIDNEY BEANS - they're toxic raw.

Added treats/goodies include fresh bee pollen granules (in the refrigerated section of health food store) and edible flowers like nasturtiums, violas, dandelion flowers, pansies, and squash blossoms. I also sprinkle on some quality juvie iguana food, finch pellets, and/or mixed seeds for color and texture.

Calcium and vitamin powders are a good idea - just don't overuse them. I like Minerall and Herptivite. Get appropriate ones for the level of UVB you're using (i.e. does it contain D3 or not?).

Good luck with him. I'm sure he'll do fine once he's settled in.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.2 Saharan Uros (Joe, Arthur, and Hitch)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
1.2 Collared Lizards (Ripcord, Thiamine, and Riboflavin)
1.1 Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

I have my Mali for 5 years and never once feed him bugs. His bones are very strong and he feel very heavy. They do fine of veggies and other stuff like eltoro mention as long as you supplement him with calcium and multivitamins... Dont over do on multivitamins as it can be toxic. dusting the food with multivitamin once or twice a week is enough. With the calcium I do it about 3 times week and I usually use the calcium with vitamin D3 added cause they live indoor, unless you have an outdoor enclosure but that is not recommend cause they need a very hot cage to thrive like eltoro mention. I too keep the hot side about 100 degree and under light it's usually 120 degree or highter; the cool end is about 85-90 degree.

The temperature can drop a little at night to about 75-80 degree and you should let it drop. Letting them cool down a bit is as important as keeping them hot.

All the care requirements given to you by the previous poster are excellent.
As far as species, my educated guess is that it is a Mali. If you want to make your own guess, check out the species pages on deer fern farms. There are lots of pictures of hatchlings/juvenilies of each species you can compare yours to. Many do look similar until they are considerably older.