Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently rescued a captive hatched baby sav monitor that wasn't in very good shape. It's doing a lot better now since it's in proper husbandry conditions. I had it's poop looked at and it appears to have parasites. I asked my vet, which doesn't deal with reptiles and he said that they could give some Panacur C for the lizard. It looks like this stuff http://www.1800petmeds.com/Panacur C-prod10674.html

They said they were unsure of the dosage since they don't deal with reptiles and told me I could look online to find the proper dosage. This stuff comes in 1 gram packages and I have looked up a few places that give dosages like 1ml per 50 gram or if under 50gram it's watered down to a certain measurement. I don't want to mess this up but we don't have reptile vets around here just farm animal and dog vets. I have to drive 30 miles just to get to the vet for my dog.

Does anyone know of a chart out there that can give dosages for reptiles?? The sav is about 70 grams only.

I bet you could call a vet somewhere, anywhere, out of state or whatever who DOES deal in reptiles and have their secretary ask. Any vet who loves animals would be willing to give you this simple advice, or even a zoo via email.

Just explain you don't live nearby but you've been given the medicine.

I will look some up tomorrow. The only thing that worries me is that the panacur c I got is for dogs. I would guess it would be the same but 1gram does up to a 11 pound dog so it would have to be cut down and watered down a bunch for 70 grams. Came along way with this sav, is was skin and bones when I rescued him and now hes fattened up but there is still issues. hopefully this panacur solves some more problems.

First, what are the issues that makes you think your monitor needs to be treated?

Heres the HUGE problem. as americans, we are TRAINED to live in a world of treatments and not prevention. Treat this with that, treat that etc, etc etc.

The reality and TRUTH IS, all healthy monitors in nature have parasites. In most cases, they get more, with EVERY MEAL. Every meal.

In nature, monitors will grow up rapidly and strong and reproduce well and regularly, UNLESS something kills them, like predators, cars, more cars and people. hahahahahahahaha true. What is considered normal growth, reproduction, and size, COMES FROM THESE ANIMALS FULL OF PARASITES. Yet in captivity 99% of keepers cannot keep them alive for over a year. And its these keepers that treat them for parasites. As that's about all they know how to do.

Treating for parasites is NOT whats important, learning to provide husbandry that allows the animals immune system to become NORMAL. Then parasites are not a problem.

If your individual is putting on weight, then parasites are NOT the problem. Let the animal be normal. Support its immune system.

What bothers me is, no one asks that question. All they think they know is, treat for parasites.

The hard facts, Over 500,000 monitors with a high percentage being Savs, are imported a year and 99% are dead before the next years imports come in. Most of those Savs are tiny hatched in cages from wild females. They should not DIE.

The problem is very simple, keepers somehow think they KNOW. When in fact, proven by the numbers, they do not know. They need to ask questions, they need to ask the right questions. In this case, to question the answers they read on the internet.

Here on this forum, we have IZI attempting to venture into monitor keeping. And she is reading all manner of stuff. The problem is the stuff shes reading, is just stuff, its neither right or wrong. This is what drives folks crazy.

KS has gone stupid, what they now have a limit on how many characters per message. How stupid.

Anyway, ask the right questions, question the answers you get, in most cases, your answers are coming from folks with no experience, that is, they read what you read and use that as a real answer. Which is great except its wrong and the animal dies.

Now for the point, the minimum degree of health is to reproduce, its not the maximum. So what supports the immune system?

Well the person that I rescued it from had it in a 10 gallon with screen top and a heat rock looking like skin and bones. 2 weeks later it's in a sealed cage with organic soil/ filtered play sand mixture with 130 degree basking, 80 cool side 65-70ish humidity. I did get it to eat a pinky today but I had to stick it in it's mouth until the feeding response kicked in. I was worried about something spreading to my other collection, that's another reason I wanted to treat the lizard with panacur. I realize that high basking temps usually kill off some of the parasites in the wild but the sav doesn't seem to want to get near the 130 degree spot. there is also some 110 and 100 degree ledges below the 130 degree spot.

Most of what you said, is not valuable to helping your monitor. Please try and understand, most of what you said is based on your prejudices and whats important to you. NOT YOUR MONITOR.

The important part of taking an animal to the vet is, THE VET SEEING THE ANIMAL, which means, not listening to the stuff the owner says. In most cases, vets and docs, listen with a large filter to the people envolved. They generally have "odd" ideas.

In your case, based on what you say, and what I can figure out. You simply want to treat it for parasites. Even thought parasites are a normal and possibly important part of their lifes.

One paragraph on this subject. In nature, all individuals grow quickly, if food is available, and strong, and reproduce, and all have many types of parasites. In captivity, there is a 99% failure rate and most have their parasites eliminated, yet still fail. hmmmmmmmmmmmm Math, algebra, would say, its not the parasites. In fact, simple logic would say, parasites may be important, as it is with so many other animals.

Back to inspecting the animal. The reason you see a vet is, to find the problem. Period, does it have a parasite problem, you know, an un-natural load based on very stressful conditions. Or, does it have kidney damage based on the dehydrating conditions you described.

So, if you treat for parasites, whether its needed or not, how would that effect damaged kidneys??????? hmmmmmmmmmm seems to be your trying to kill off your monitor if you do this.

There are good vets and poor vets, just like in every other discipline. Your task is to find a good one. Then if your so inclined to think your a vet, learn from that vet.continued

poor vets tell you treating for parasites is harmless, which is total BS. First off, why is there a dosage, if its harmless? Secondly, treating for parasites puts a high level of stress on the kidneys. So what if they are already damaged?????? How would that effect the dosage??????? Are you getting the point.
The result of damaged kidneys goes like this, the animal does better, starts feeding, starts putting on weight, the looking very healthy it falls over dead.

This healthy dead monitor syndrome is common with this type of situation. Just read forums and you WILL read, my poor so and so, was doing so well, then I came home today and it was dead.

Back to math, healthy monitors do not just die, they have to be killed

So when a vet tells you treating for parasites is harmless, hes saying, that treatment will not kill the monitor is a parasite related way. Yet a month later the animal falls over dead from kidney failure. Well, the treatment did not kill it, but the effect of DAMAGED kidneys did.

The key to this whole nine yards, extreme dehydration, causes kidney damage, with each and every event. The question is how much. So what is extreme? Its anytime you can notice the animal is dehydrated. Best wishes

Never thought of kidney problems, that is a very valid point. On the flipside the vets around here are worthless as tits on a board and I barley want to take my dog there for routine shots, let alone a lizard. I guess if the kidneys are damaged there's no really much I can do. I will continue to keep the humidity up and see where it goes while scratching the administration of panacur. At least it's not in a 10 gallon screen topped cage anymore. Hopefully it comes out of this with it's life. Hopefully I can see some improvements soon with it eating on it's own.

Actually there is something a vet can do to minimize damage and help pass uric crystal build up.

I do understand there are some, not so good vets. If that's the case then find one that will work WITH YOU. that is, you research the possible problems, and have the vet, do his part.

They have access to a huge data base, that alone is of great value. So yea, try finding a vet that will work with you. Cheers

One thing many people overlook, and what I think FR may be alluding to is a lot of problems can be prevented with access to a proper basking range, allowing the animal to metabolize properly.

Without access to heat and humidity, the animals internal well being deteriorates and weakens.

Rather than worrying about panacur, giving the animal access to a hot basking spot will strengthen the animals immunities, and in time the adult parasites (if they even exist at all) will die off and without reintroduction via infected food, the animal's parasite count will diminish.
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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Savannah Monitors
Snakes and Lizards, It don't get any better....