Reptile & Amphibian Forums

are apex predators? Seriously? the most silly thing i read? One breeder said they are the king of their domain?

They are so pretty, I FINALLY got experience with them to hold them they are thick big snakes big girth, but they are just big racers or garter snakes.

These are not boas. An 8 foot boa or python is a serious predator something i would not handle on my own. It is stronger than a man.

BUt the indigo and cribo are NOTHING LIKE THIS!!! You can tell when you handle them even when the cribo gets angry it is easy to over power. They cannot hurt a child or over power any human or hurt you other than maybe give you a bad bite. An 8 foot boa can kill any man.

It is just a joke people are telling the wrong things about these snakes calling them top predators when they are not? A friends beautiful 8 footer very hyper for a snake and very active an escape artest got out and was killed by a rat terrier. Top predators are not killed by rat dogs. A rat dog is something an owl will eat or my dog would eat.

i goot to hold a mussie also they are strong compared to rats and other snakes just tiny and small girth

The use of the term apex predator refers to the ecology of this snake. Within its habitat, it is an apex predator. It preys on anything smaller than it is. And eats it. Within its range there are a few other vertebrates that could eat indigos, such as alligators, or wild pigs (released domestic hogs) that likely eat the occasional indigo, but not many. Florida panthers are nearly extinct, but they likely used to eat a few. Indigos are at or near the top of the food chain, hence they are considered apex predators. They will eat any snake they can fit into their mouths, including eastern diamondbacks, cottonmouths, canebrake rattlesnakes.

This snake is aan apex predator of snakes in its range

IT is NOT an apex predator in its range

You are telling me a great horned owl, Eagles, Red tail hawks, raccoons, bobcats, skunks, minks, Wouldnt kill this?

Put one in with a fur farm wild mink watch what happens

I use to help out in wild life rehab the only snakes that are "apex" predators are the giants pythons.

North america mammals and birds of prey are the top of the food chain no snake comes even close.

A wild hog was seen eating an 8 foot indigo, wild hogs do not "fight" prey they just eat helpless prey that cant fight back or heard them. They are not predators. Wild hog is not going to go and hunt a deer or a coon. They just eat things that have a very poor defense and no way to get away. This whole apex predator thing is false information. A rat dog killed one so easy these are prey species with almost no defense. Just a giant garter snake that eats every snake in its range. The cribo is not the king of snakes in its range. Many snakes supass the cribo.

FEral nile monitors i am sure are going to take their toll on all these.

also otters and alagator snappers would love to feast on an indigo, my friend has an alagator snapper give me your indigo and i will show you.

No thanks. Take care.

>>No thanks. Take care.

Awe a little troll came to visit us. Think it needs a hug.
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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

No i was not trying to troll sorry just making a point. The gator, the panther, the bald eagle all apex predators. The alagator snapper also. The otter. But not an indigo snake. The burmese python is. The nile monitor isn't.

>>No i was not trying to troll sorry just making a point. The gator, the panther, the bald eagle all apex predators. The alagator snapper also. The otter. But not an indigo snake. The burmese python is. The nile monitor isn't.

Well your writing prowess is very condescending toward these animals as if you are trying to start a "my snake can beat up your snake" competition.

You come off very bitter about this, and I think any of your points could be up for argument for and against. Seems like a pointless witch hunt to simply make Dry lovers feel degraded.

http://markgelbart.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/the-orianne-indigo-snake-preserve/
"A species of indigo snake native to Central America was observed feeding on a boa constrictor, then on a jumping viper before the former was digested".

Not saying one is tougher than the other, or the absolute validity of the claim above, but arguments could be made back and forth all day of who beats who in a fight with lots of animals we respect as predators. You never know what circumstance is going to cause an animal one day to triumph, and then the next day to fail. I just don't see the point of coming in here simply to degrade. Why not just appreciate these amazing animals instead.

I also don't think the veteran guys in here are going to feel the dire need to defend these animals against the old "Dry's are just wimpy giant garter snakes" argument, so I am going to let this be my last response on this and enjoy the animals I STILL feel so blessed to work with. All the best!

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~Markus

The very existence of flamethrowers means that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves..."You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire...but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

they are one of my fave species of snakes them and mussies but people compare them to boas. A boa can kill a man or a child. We all know an indigo cannot. That was all I was saying. It was just false information being spread by breeders and owners. They are beautiful mammal like snakes and huge. Friendly also but I found the cribo was kind of nasty when I held it. I just thought spreading false information is wrong. The cribo is even more beautiful than the indigo snake just I found it kind of bad tempered. A small boa can be eaten by a king snake.

ALso saying that these snakes are dangerous predators (i have heard people say that) is not good for their repuation either. We all know that they are no danger to kids, no danger to pets either. They are harmless snakes that can co exist easy living along side people. Actually better to have them live with us as they eat snakes like rattle snakes that can hurt a child. Burmese pythons adults can be dangerous to people and pets so I agree there is reason for concern. Better to promote the indigo as the snake it really is so society learns to like it as the harmless friendly snake.

There are many apex predators that can be taken down by others, eg great white sharks are killed & eaten by killer whales. Humans are supposedly the ultimate predator but without our weapons we pale into insignificance against most animals.

Indigos are awesome snakes that are close to the top of the food chain in their world & you sir just come over as an angry -------!.

comparing a 10 pound snake to a great white shark? really? LMAO

you sir are living in a fantasy world

Again put your snake in my yard with my dog and watch what u think will happen?

Or with some hungry pigs?

Or with my rehab coons cage? U think it wont be eaten? reality check.

IT Comes no where near the top. Great whites do YES, bull sharks? yes Killer whales? yes

10 pound indigo? Not a chance. Maybe on an isolated island without serious predators but not in its location where many animals can easily kill it. Again a rat dog killed it. Anything killed by a rat dog is no apex predator sorry come again.

i am not comparing it to anything, all i am saying is that even top predators can be killed by other animals.
In the world of snakes, lizards, rodents, birds, amphibians, turtles, all of which are eaten by Indigos IT IS AT THE TOP.

i doubt that many dogs, pigs or even gators prey on that many indigos, some obviously do yes, maye even the odd domestic cat may take snakes. Most of The animals you are wanting to put up against an Indigo is not in the realms of reality of the wild. Your dog, what a joke.

If get off on dog bating, cock fighting or whatever sick sport you seem to be into then you should be locked up.

i would never do it i was just trying to make a point u know what would happen if u put your biggest cribo in my yard

does not mean anything going by your logic a feral cat is a top predator so is a fox so is a coon so is a skunk so is mink so is stoat so is a raven so is a crow so is a gull and the list goes into the millions

When i say apex i mean very few take them, very few can take them and very few would dare if they were hungry, i have seen domestic cats go after some huge rat snakes before and in india they go after cobras even. Snakes are often at the lower end of the chain and lower ranked predators. Unless they are the giants. But even the rock python is a fave of the leopard or the nile. An apex predator cannot be 10 pounds and defenless. A feral cat is not an apex predator unless its a remote island. FEW animals take ferals other than coyotes.

also the indigo is killed by the alagator snapper so it is not the top of the turtles, it is not the top of an adult turtle either it only kills tiny baby ones or small ones. An giant snapper from florida loves to eat water snakes and the bigger the more happy.

it is not the top of lizards either it will be eaten by the new niles u have

In their cages...my cribos and indigos are apex predators. Speaking of that...I recently saw a redtail hawk carrying a five or six foot indigo to its nest. The hawk was having a hard time getting above the tree tops and had to make two passes at the woodlands edge to do so.

thanks for your honest answer, i am studying vet tech and going to specialize in wildlife probably zoo and wildlife rehab so i took an oath to protect animals so dont think i would dare hurt any animal.

Red tails are small in weight half the weight of the great horned owl which preys on them. Red tails can take six foot rat tails but not always sometimes snakes do turn tables on hawks because choking a raptor is the easiest way to kill it. Great horned owls usually have their way though. Mostly eagles are the expert snake killers that will kill huge snakes as recorded a brown snake eagle took a 10 foot mamba. Depends on the method of the bird of prey attacks. They must tire the snake out or man handle it the right way if not they can get choked by a very small snake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD0KOmg_YQ8 This is a red tail with a bullsnake even though it says eagle lol

The bullsnake is too heavy for the hawk to carry means it weighs more than the hawk. HAppens a lot when BOP hunt snakes. Snakes o a bop is like chicken to a fox.

Minks are the worst snake killers cause there is no way a snake can counter attack them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s6TayHnWS4

Coons I rehab would just smash through anything to get at any snake and eat it alive. The bites dont bother coons, badgers are the same, also fishers. They wont bother killing they will just start chomping on them.

Unless it is a python of course

The only animal i have seen take a large boia is a german shepherd, the boa ate a hen so the owner let their dog tear the snake to beats. The dog just got its head so 500lbs of presure ended the snake. BUT i dont like this and consider that animal cruelty i would have stopped it if i was there.

I have seen eagles kill the mature green tree pythons and the giant monkey eating eagle has gone after half grown retics.

Many creatures drool at the thought of snake which is why also indigo cant just go roaming as it pleases, there is so much danger

I dont think cribos are top snake predators in their range are they?

Indigos sure seem to be? the only snake i can think of that will try to kill one is a king snake. NEver heard of them clashing.

Ive seen one chomp on a bit coach whip and rat snake,

I thought a large mussie would be the true king of its land even where the cribo is found. Mussie venom kills king snakes I assume it would kill a cribo also?

I saw a coral snake eating a indigo as well. It is interesting to understand the relationship between diff species. The indigo passing buy an adult burmese python has no reaction. It will slither over top. Means they are smart enough to know better. I think a king would try to attack it, they are not as smart lol

I knew of only one place in the part of Florida I lived, where indigos and kingsnakes shared the same habitat. Six foot kingsnakes where common and seven foot indigos where common. A subdivision was built there...so neither exist there anymore. I would assume that when the two met, the larger of the two would win out. It's funny that you should ask, because several years ago a debate broke out on this forum concerning this subject of who would dominate between the two. I took the side of the drymarchons and that very night one of my drymarchons escaped from it's cage and consumed three of my cal kings. lol

if they are the same length i think the dr has a huge girth advantage.

The mmussie is stronger than a king though and some get really girthy. The ones i saw were thin. But very powerful for such a small snake.

If the dry was the same weight as a king the king will eat it.

I think a dry is close to a king cobra in girth? maybe not that big but still the are so thick.

A lot of spitting cobras have massive girth also.

do you find much differance between cribos and indigos of the same size? i found the cribos a bit harder to handle and a lil stronger, more aggressive. Not like angry egyptian cobra aggressive where the snake wants to kill you, just get lost aggressive. WHich is understandable I think the cribo lives among harsher animals. Mussie was the most friendly